Has a man dressed as a woman ever come into a communal changing room with you or joined a specifically female group you belong to ?

[Rilkescat]

How common is it ? Not really referring to stories in the media but for everyday women on MN. FWIW I've never met a trans person that I know of, neither professionally or socially. I'm a HCP so meet alot of members of the public. None of my kids have friends that are trans nor do my friends have children that are either.
Loads of trans threads at the moment. No problem with that but just wondered if it really is that prevalent ?
Before I get flamed I'm not in favour of biological womens' safe spaces being open to biological men but equally I don't think that all trans people, especially trans women are necessarily sexually deviant or mentally ill.

Yes - a transwoman tried out for our ladies' choir for a bit. She seemed nice but her voice was too low for even the lowest part (I'm not sure if she was on hormones which could have made her voice higher) so she only stayed a few weeks. I think we were a bit relieved when she left as we were used to discussing hot flushes/useless husbands etc and felt a bit constrained by her presence. Also as far as I was aware NO ONE felt comfortable actually coming out and saying she was trans, so it was a tad awks. In terms of aesthetics etc it would have altered the sound a fair amount to have a male voice amongst the squeaky ladies!

Not rtt

But to the original question - yes but they asked first and allowed us time to discuss

This was some years back and we saw how he/she had been treated by the blokes ( at work )

The Acronym that Gets Penalised.

The situation in Thailand is completely different. Not remotely comparable to the
trans rights activism in the west currently.

My ds used to attend a very large secondary school, so by the time he was in his senior years there were quite a few girls who had decided they were now boys. They were allowed to used the boys toilets. But, because you had to walk past the urinals to get to the cubicles, many of the boys refused to use the bathrooms. It caused a whole load of problems but the boys couldn’t do anything about it. Hardly a conducive environment for encouraging acceptance and tolerance.

Post op transwoman worked with me in a strip club

Many many MANY pre op trans in the lesbian community, in groups and in gay clubs going after lesbians.

@MonsoonMadness don't they tend to be the middle aged formerly transvestite guys who found their 'femimine side' later in life..

No.and no
I work with quite a few trans and non binary people and have never once had any sort of a problem.

Genuinely curious. Does everybody else’s lived experience have to be the same as yours before accepting it as ‘existing’?

The point is (for me anyway) if they use single sex facilities designed for females because they've decided they are now a woman then that is discomforting. They don't have to 'do' anything except go where they aren't supposed to go. No one can change sex so they shouldn't be in female spaces.

F2M haven't changed sex, they are still female so belong in female spaces

That they don't wish to be there is another issue but they do belong

Hormones don't make a voice higher. There is surgery to tilt part of the male voicebox so that cords are shorter like women's, which some transwomen have and which can raise their vocal pitch. However, mostly the voices that transwomen achieve that are barely distinguishable from women's voices are achieved with a LOT of voice therapy. Not everyone can get a female sounding voice without strain but many transwomen can achieve an androgynous voice with a short course of therapy plus lots of practice.

Transmen pass vocally a lot better because hormones do make their vocal cords swell to be more like men's cords. However, they will have a smaller larynx so they may sound croaky, a bit like they have a cold. As male voices are the default in a sexist society, I think they don't get challenged as often.

Spot on ! I’ve never felt threatened by trans women at all .

It’s becoming more of an issue for lesbian women (and bisexual women who go only to meet and play with women) in swinging clubs/circles as well.

The level of entitlement is staggering.

Yes, apologies, I read the original quote wrong. Of course F2M are welcome in single sex female spaces. I have no issue with that.

I always replace 'transgender' as 'homosexual' when I read peoples comments.

Why? It's got zero to do with it.

I’m glad that you came back @Rilkescat

Many bad faith posters on this particular subject post to get responses but never engage again. You started out saying that you’d never met a trans person and this may well be true in smaller or more conservative towns.

However, there’s not a single large school in my area that does not have many, many, many trans identifying kids. Hence the surprise about the comment that none of your kids or your friends kids know / any have trans friends. If you have / asked a DD, she might well know more than one.

Apologies if your subtext wasn’t this is a lot of fuss over nothing as asking if it was really ‘that prevalent’ felt it that was a possible inference. Seems like you have your answer though with yes it is …

In any event, biologically intact trans women coming into changing rooms or single sex spaces/groups is one aspect. Our young girls hating their female bodies is another unfolding tragedy.

Fetish

I was in the lingerie section of a well known department store looking for bras before Christmas and the only staff around was a MtF trans person. They were clearly not a sexual deviant or mentally ill. Rather nervous looking and not threatening. Did I want to discuss bra sizes or have them help with a fitting? No I did not.

Why are they giving these specific roles where most women would prefer a woman to males? 🙄

There is a transwoman who has been working in lingerie dept at the M&S Pantheon (Oxford circus) branch for years.

Everyone knows not that you don't go there to take their daughter for their first bra fitting.

There is no reason for a male bodied person to want to work in a women's underwear department except for validation and/or thrill.

They don't know what it's like to be a woman or have a women's body. And companies which have indulged them should be ashamed.

Men who put women's clothes on, and then gravitate towards jobs where intimate procedures or activities are carried on or with women...should be avoided at all costs in my opinion. Of course loads of women will say it's all fine...until it happens to them.

Once, back in the mid 90s I was doing a beauty therapy course and we had a 2 day nail care course that anyone could attend.
A 6 foot + man dressed quite demurely in blouse and a skirt, makeup and a blond wig (very very obviously a bloke though) walked in.
There was a few raised eyebrows but nobody said anything, and it soon became apparent that he/she was MUCH more uncomfortable than the rest of us (all females) were and was very respectful and polite so we made them feel welcome and just treated it as though it was normal.
They just wanted to blend in with the rest of us and was actually trying out living as a woman before transitioning.
I do distinctly remember them not using the women’s toilets though.
I think genuine trans people (who are few and far between in reality) just want to blend in and be accepted as the sex they feel that they should of been and will try to “pass” as that sex as much as they possibly can.
It’s all the entitled, “look at me I’m speshal” people who say they are “trans” (usually the non binary lot) who want to eradicate women’s rights and safe spaces and the perverts who are using that to their advantage who actually are making things a whole lot worse for actual trans people.

They knew by looking at you that you were bisexual? Amazing.

Scuse it being a bit blurry

All those saying trans women are all lovely, not harming anyone etc are missing the point IMO.

Its not JUST the lovely transwoman you know who can now use the womens’ toilets and changing rooms - it’s ANY man. And that’s not just your lovely DH or DS ( who wouldn’t want to anyway at a guess) it’s the rapist, the fetishist, the abuser who can now walk straight into these areas and have access to undressed women.

And that’s just the changing rooms. They can also decide to say they are now a woman, after raping women, and be moved to womens jails.