Has a man dressed as a woman ever come into a communal changing room with you or joined a specifically female group you belong to ?

[Rilkescat]

How common is it ? Not really referring to stories in the media but for everyday women on MN. FWIW I've never met a trans person that I know of, neither professionally or socially. I'm a HCP so meet alot of members of the public. None of my kids have friends that are trans nor do my friends have children that are either.
Loads of trans threads at the moment. No problem with that but just wondered if it really is that prevalent ?
Before I get flamed I'm not in favour of biological womens' safe spaces being open to biological men but equally I don't think that all trans people, especially trans women are necessarily sexually deviant or mentally ill.

Several yrs ago I used to go to a disabled swimming session. I noticed one of the lifeguards was male to female. They were pool side never in changing rooms. Lots of adults using the session session has learning disabilities and they used to loudly shout see that fella dressed he’s dressed like a woman etc.

They then joined an adult ballet class at dance school I attended. To learn more feminine movements. Teacher checked everyone was ok. Everyone arrived dressed so changing rooms weren’t an issue. They were a member of class without issue for several years.

a man pretending to be a woman joined my women's only yoga class. I stopped using the changing facilities at the gym because of it. He shouted out quite often in the class, and I ended up leaving the class because of him.

Also met a charming man in a dress standing and pissing in sink in the ladies loo in a pub.

@Bellybootcut , are no Muslim women employed? They may be quite severely inconvenienced, but of course 'happily' that matters less than the trans woman's comfort.

No.

Never . People just live creating drama where it doesn’t existe

I've known a TW join a choir, sang with the tenors, stood at the end of the tenor row next to the second altos. I had no issue at all with them in the choir or anywhere else as they were very polite and respectful to women. The same cannot be said of the men who goad women in women's spaces. I've witnessed that and it was horrible. Unfortunately you can't filter out the harmless men, which is why we're have single sex spaces in the first place. I object to the notion that this is all hysteria.

@DrBlackbird ah ...turn on the OP. What's your issue ? Unlike many OPs I've read most of the posts and am finding everyone's opinions interesting. Why am I posting in bad faith ? I do have a life y'know.
What I wrote is exactly how I feel. Even discussed my thread with my DS2 aged 15 who has very different opinions as in #be kind 🙄

Do you know what? They don't need to. They make everything harder and less pleasant knowing they may try. I'm somewhat hyper vigilant now.

I check shop and gym changing rooms carefully before undressing, and try and shimmy in and out of clothes while still covered up. I feel so much more vulnerable than before.

Even without actually being there, their intention to invade women's spaces makes women feel less safe.

So because it’s never happened to you it doesn’t happen at all?

What a bizarre attitude

@DrBlackbird I've asked my son aged 15. There is 1 person (girl) in his year who is identifying as 'male'. Not a friend however. Happy ?

Nope.

I feel far more threatened by straight,
cis men on a daily basis. To me, trans people represent a very small threat to women compared to them. I think we’ve got it completely out of proportion and wish we could put as much time and effort into tackling toxic masculinity as we do into this.

I'm old enough to remember the bias, phobia and hatred expressed towards homosexual people who lived repressed lives due to that bias etc.

I see history repeating itself here .... particularly when someone's self is referred to as 'social contagion' rather than in integral element of who they are.

Witches. Gays. Blacks. Trans.

It appears to be a perpetual cycle.

As you say, it's where we are, and it's as ugly today as it ever was.

How many traumatised women and children are enough? Is one acceptable? A price worth paying? I'm interested to know from the "this never happens/don't be hysterical" mob.

Toxic masculinity now comes in trans flavour too. Aren’t females lucky.

Yes to both.

Please the goddess, I will never go to prison. So I won't meet one of the large numbers of convicted sex offenders who are heading to women's prisons. But some women will experience this. And I think they deserve protection. But that's just me. I'm a nasty old bigot like that

I am conflating the bias, prejudice, phobia and hatred expressed towards both groups at the time those people were/are attempting to gain acceptance in society as being 'normal' as opposed to 'freaks' 'abominations' and 'lesser'.

Transwomen aka trans identified men are not always gay. Many of them consider themselves lesbians. So they are trying to break the "cotton ceiling" as they call their rapey bullshit. Again, I'm a nasty old bigot that thinks that's not ok.

Regularly. There was a 6.5ft man in a wig, fake nails and thigh high boots in Primark, queueing for the changing room this morning. We didn't bother trying stuff on, just left it. Not a notable experience, I walk past another guy in an Ivy Tilsey wig every morning, and a fella who wanders around in a pink juicy couture track is very often. I'm quite surprised by all these recent threads suggesting it's no issue, no problem, don't get me wrong I believe in single sex spaces but honestly why aren't women concerned with other things...oh, no I'm not. Not surprised at all. Sunlight is coming and no debate no longer works, so the tactics will change once again.

How many women need to be uncomfortable, triggered, hurt, assaulted, imprisoned cruelly or just not happy before it matters? What's the number?

Gaining acceptance is one thing - using your maleness to gain access to single sex female spaces is quite another, and one that women shouldn’t have to tolerate.

@Trez1510

So offensive to people who have been the victims of actual discrimination.

Disliking or treating someone differently because you don't like their skin colour or sexuality is abhorrent.

Treating someone differently because what they do impacts you is not (generally) wrong.

I'm sure there's nasty ppl on both sides but I've not read of any transphobia on this thread, just ppl who prioritise single sex spaces over validating gender identities.

Do you think that in itself is transphobic? And if so can you explain why you've feel trans right top women's rights to single sex spaces?

Precisely.

None of the other groups mentioned on this thread determinedly trampled the rights of another group to gain their acceptance.

In my last workplace there was a person who transitioned and would cross the entire building into a different department in order to use the more traditional communal type women’s loos rather than use the single cubicle loos in the new part of the building where their department was situated. Ditto women’s changing/shower. There was also a part time cross dressing male who would wear overtly sexual costumes and made no secret of his enjoyment of fetish clubs and would also use the female facilities when ‘dressed’. Personally I perceived that as sexual harassment.

Why do men who are trans enjoy wearing clothes that no self respecting woman would normally wear in the context they wear them? Sparkly nail varnish/high heels/ fishnet tights?
Most women in leggings and trainers with no make up don’t recognise this as being ‘a woman’. I think it’s just exhibitionism.

Nope. I've only ever knowingly encountered one trans woman in my life and she was someone I worked with on a work project.