Has a man dressed as a woman ever come into a communal changing room with you or joined a specifically female group you belong to ?

[Rilkescat]

How common is it ? Not really referring to stories in the media but for everyday women on MN. FWIW I've never met a trans person that I know of, neither professionally or socially. I'm a HCP so meet alot of members of the public. None of my kids have friends that are trans nor do my friends have children that are either.
Loads of trans threads at the moment. No problem with that but just wondered if it really is that prevalent ?
Before I get flamed I'm not in favour of biological womens' safe spaces being open to biological men but equally I don't think that all trans people, especially trans women are necessarily sexually deviant or mentally ill.

No. I don't know many trans people but the ones I do are very respectful towards women and their spaces. I think in general it's not the genuinely transgender people that are the problem, it's the men who think they can just put on a dress, announce they are trans and then use their "disguise" to attack women who are the problem.

Nope, but one works in the women’s department of M&S not a million miles from me. No idea whether he just folds jumpers or works on the changing rooms.

Probably because women are conditioned from an early not to question or complain, or to react in such a way that might result in assault, rape or worse.

There’s a very high number of posters who have had a negative lived experience, regardless of how it’s waved away. If legislation passed up here and crosses into the rUK then expect these occurrences to become more commonplace as women and girls lose all right to single sex spaces. 1 in 585 trans women (men) are convicted sex offenders compared to 1 in 2500-3000 men - a horrifying figure, but y’know, be kind and be quiet.

I work in a big office. Approx 50 women and 25 men. We've recently taken on a new member of staff who is a transwoman. I often bump in to her in the ladies. As do others but no-one as far as I know has any objection. There is a gender neutral disabled toilet as well but happilly they haven't felt the need to use that. No-one bats an eyelid and just goes about there day.

And that is exactly why we need sex based spaces. We can't tell the difference between genuine and bad men.

One of the immutable differences between men and women is that the hips do not lie.

A thing called the Q angle means that the sex of a person is always very obvious when they are in motion. We see it, everyone sees it. The gait of men and women is defined by the Q angle. Look out of your window when it is raining. When people are dressed in thick coats, scarves, hats, umbrellas. You will still now which are male, which female.

Watch a group of lycra clad cyclists cycle away from you, you will spot the woman by how her knees stick out from the centre line. It is always really obvious.

To answer the OP, no it has not affected me personally. I've only met one person I think was probably trans but I don't actually know, they just had a very male physique.

I do have a question - has anyone had a transwoman try to join an all women choir? I wonder if they realise that it can't work and don't try.

To be fair I have used mens loos on occasion when there's been a massive queue for the womens, especially when I was a student and drunk and a bit silly. But then - when has a man ever been attacked by a woman in a male loo?

Yes, at work. A man transitioned to living as a woman. She ( I will refer to them as this because this is what was requested, and I am polite, but I remain gender critical) emailed the whole floor to let everyone know that this was happening and that she would be using the female toilets from that time forward.

This was a Local Authority that was known to be 'fully inclusive' and had lots of endorsements from Stonewall as a great place for members of the GLBT (as it was then) community to work. There were rainbow flags all over the place for Pride Day ect, we had lots of gay team members and managers of both sexes, and it did feel like a generally supportive place to work.

But noone asked the women (who were in the vast majority) if this was ok with them, just an email letting everyone know and it was a done deal. There was no opportunity to discuss this decision, and I believe that anyone complaining about it would have recieved short shrift, and would be considered homophobic, as transphobia was not a thing back then. The person complaining would have been sent on an inclusivity training course at the very least, and possibly have been relocated.

I have to say that I do think this person genuinely had body dismorphia, and just wanted to live their life and go about their business as a female. They went on to have top and bottom surgery, and also facial surgery. They were never a problem to anyone as far as I know. But it was the fact that this was what they wanted and so thats what happened, without any consultation with the other women who worked in the building. I don't know if it is relevent, but at the time this was an extremely white workforce, I wonder if there would have been more consideration given to the other women if there were some muslim women in the workforce.

This was actually about 15 years ago, so before the current brand of militant misogeny displayed by the current bunch of trans activists, but the entitilement that this person got exactly what they wanted and blow anyone else's opinion or sense of safety was an indication of what was to come.

It feels as though this thread has been started in bad faith despite the faux reasonablenesses given that the OP has not returned. It is beyond belief that these days anyone with children in state schools in a reasonable size town do not know kids that are trans even if not friends with any kids who are trans.

In any event, I’ll bite and say yes it is increasingly more common. I was in the lingerie section of a well known department store looking for bras before Christmas and the only staff around was a MtF trans person. They were clearly not a sexual deviant or mentally ill. Rather nervous looking and not threatening. Did I want to discuss bra sizes or have them help with a fitting? No I did not.

What about it @Rilkescat are you convinced by the many comments here that it is more common for others even if not for you? If you’re not opposed to single sex spaces, what were you looking for from this thread?

People's sexuality has no impact on me.

If I am an elite female athlete, transwomen can have a very serious impact on my ability to win my events, get sponsorship and make a living. Quite apart from the concerns about increased assaults on (biological) women.

People should not conflate the two, they are not the same.

In toilets yes

It is beyond belief that these days anyone with children in state schools in a reasonable size town do not know kids that are trans even if not friends with any kids who are trans

Erm, no it is not beyond belief at all. Why would I know teens who are trans if they have nothing to do with my own children?

It is beyond belief that your children do not know / know of anyone who is trans if they attend a state school in a reasonably large town. Not you.

Yes. I used to volunteer for a rape crisis helpline. At the time it was for women only (not sure if it still is). Men used to phone up insisting they were women and then tell detailed stories about being abused, after a few minutes you'd realise they were masturbating.

I live in a town on the Welsh border and I've met at least four transpeople. Two work in local supermarkets, my sisters neighbour and a person picking up a child at school. All MtF.

I had an almost naked man (he had a towel round waist) stand right next to me at the lockers in my gym. They only have communal changing, no cubicles. I was just out of the shower myself and only had a towel wrapped round me. I looked round at him as he was practically touching me he was standing so close. There were three other women at the lockers opposite and we all went silent, staring at him. He had shoulder length hair and maybe with lots of accessories he looks slightly feminine in the men’s changing room but he just stood out like a massive sore thumb (or massive naked man) in the women’s changing room. He was over 6ft and I’m only 5ft1. He just looked at me, grabbed his stuff and huffed off.

The other women were older and were really shocked, we all put in a complaint but apparently men who think they are women are now allowed in the women’s changing room, even though it’s open plan. I’m just glad he left immediately as I wouldn’t have changed with him right there.

I developed a thyroid problem about that time and ended up cancelling membership at the gym despite being members for 10 years as no exercise allowed for at least a year, but it made it easier to just quit knowing men could be wandering about naked. There was a family changing with cubicles that I used to use with my ds’s and I might have just used that instead but easier to quit and find somewhere else once I recover.

Yes in the FUCKING communal (womens) showers at the leisure centre. Loads of small children as it was swimming lessons. Complained but got told it was a woman

It wouldn’t be any of your business if anyone objected - that would be between them and HR.

However, if the policy is that men are allowed in the female toilets then the chances are their objection would get precisely nowhere. Be kind and be quiet, females.

A place I worked at previously, we had an email circulate to tell us that Brian (not his real name) was changing to sophie, and having a sex change and wanted to advise us they would be using the female toilets from now on. It didn't worry me at the time but for some who knew this person as a previously very masculine male declare he was now female was a shock to them. (and also a shock to his wife and adult DC)

This is such a clear example of why the creeping abuse of female only spaces is so abhorrent.

I would not be happy with that at all.

Those statistics are horrifying. Do you have a reference/citation?

Thanks for sharing

I live in a non-cosmopolitan area up north and there was a man with sparkly nail varnish and a swimming skirt at my ladies aqua aerobics class.

Quite, I can see someone in full biker or beekeeping gear and it's still obvious who is female or male.

They were released in the recent census data. Full thread about it here www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4714523-1-in-585-trans-women-are-convicted-sex-offenders