Tanks or no Tanks for Ukraine?

[Samedaysameshit]

My view is yes but interested in what the opinion is out there?
What are we prepared to watch unfold in Ukraine? If Russia’s spring offensive works and they roll all the way to the Poland border what do we do then?

Again, they don’t need an excuse. If they want to escalate this war, they will.

I don't know Much about the conflict, but since it's basically a proxy war, why not just go fully to war with Russia ?

Tanks.
Russia clearly doesn’t want us to which is why they are encouraging the useful idiots to be scared they will see it as escalation.

Unless we are fighting a different enemy, than just Russia ?

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Why do you think?!

Noted.

If Russia knows x country is supplying Ukraine, then by default it's still a war with Russia is it not ?

" not getting involved".

What does this mean I thought we had already supplied tons of military equipment as well as incredible on going training of troops.
. I don't understand why tanks have suddenly become an issue?

@Hawkins001 have you not watched any of the news for the last 11 months?

For a thorough introduction to the complexity of geopolitics I suggest you look at the established threads about this situation in Chat

Sorry that was to Hawkins

"the main stream media as trusted information" did anyone learn from history via all the propaganda ect from the wars, just because x is presented as fact, does not make it fact.

@Hawkins001 are you really going to go there? Really?

Yes tanks. Realistically, when are we ever going to use them to defend our country? We've left lots of them to rust. Ukraine might as well have the lot.

Fair points, so basically it's shadow wars,

I've got no specific examples, but how many secret operations came out from the wars, that were different than what the media was saying at the time, ect all im suggesting is trust nothing for certain, but keep a varied mix of sources of media and information.

I’m not getting into this, as it’s ridiculous.

Considering I have history on my side, about how much propaganda was used in the main world wars, with today's media and coverage, does not automatically mean that we no longer have propaganda and everything is 100% truth

Take it elsewhere

The U.K. is reducing its fleet of challenger 2 tanks from 227 to 148. The remaining tanks will be upgraded to challenger 3 tanks. That’s 79 tanks that will be mothballed or to put another way 1,5 armoured regiments. Whilst I wouldn’t advocate sending them all, I would advocate adding another 36 to the 12 we are already sending to make 1 armoured regiment. This combined with the Marders and Bradley’s the Germans and Americans are sending would make a fairly hefty armoured infantry brigade. The challengers are a generation ahead of the T-72’s the Russians can deploy.

They can see the T-72’s before the T-72’s can see them, they can fire on the move and destroy them before the Russian tanks are in range. Challengers have faced these tanks before in Iraq and not a single tank was lost due to enemy fire. In fact only one tank has been lost in action was a friendly fire incident from another challenger. The tank that was destroyed had its hatch open or it probably would have survived.

An armoured infantry brigade is one hell of an attacking force with which to smash through enemy lines.

Three brigades make a division and if it’s tank heavy it’s an armoured division and if it’s infantry heavy it’s an armoured infantry division. Both are formidable attacking forces.

Germany and America could each supply an armoured regiment and with the armoured personnel carriers that are being supplied could probably flatten any opposition the Russians could muster. It would probably end the war this year.

Yes, but that's because they're short for 'the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland', and 'the United States of America'. You wouldn't say 'the France' or 'the Spain'...

The UK and The USA douse the "The" in their formal names.
The USSR referred to the occupied area as "the Ukraine" and it was dropped after independence from the USSR. The official name now is just "Ukraine".

is the correct answer

Tanks have to be sent

Yes, give them everything they need to defeat Putin.