Tanks or no Tanks for Ukraine?

[Samedaysameshit]

My view is yes but interested in what the opinion is out there?
What are we prepared to watch unfold in Ukraine? If Russia’s spring offensive works and they roll all the way to the Poland border what do we do then?

Look at what happened to Crimea, look at how WWII started. These "regional wars" aren't really limited to that region. They WILL spread of we'd done nothing. The American could take a breath in front of the Atlantic ocean, but not us.

I just don't know why people refuse to see it.

It sounds like very much WWII could have been avoided if Europe just let Hitler take whatever he wanted. 🙄

Sorry, @NameChange005 , I didn't read carefully that you were responding to that particular question. Apologies!

No to tanks and escalation. That's not the way to achieve a ceasefire and peace.

I am willing to bet he is a far better human being than you are.

Yes tanks. If we don’t stop them at Ukraine they will be in Western Europe

No they fucking won't. Putin's got no interest in that. He wasn't even that bothered about Ukraine until zelensky started arsing around with NATO. Russia will conclude the campaign by attrition, zelensky will bin off his neo Nazis and the donbas will get part carved up part conceded, everyone can save face and Russia will carry on doing what it needs to do with China, as long as we stay in our lane.

Truth be told I don't know the guy personally same as I guess you don't so you could be right. But I'm not an oligarch, I don't rig elections and I don't employ neo nazi troops, so that's three areas I'm doing better in that that chump in the flak jacket.

I really hope that once this is over there's a piece by piece analysis of everything that happened prior to the UK and USA declaring that what was going on in Donbas was war.

Hardly a cogent refutation.

What have I said that's untrue?

I don’t need to make a cogent refutation. For starters, your comment about Putin not being that bothered about Ukraine until Zelenskyy “started arsing around with NATO” is totally innacurate.

It was maybe a little broad but it's not totally inaccurate. The territory had been disputed for years. Russia was ok with that being ongoing. Putin knew exactly what zelensky was and had an eye on him same as everyone else in the wider region who'd bought and crashed banks but he seemed content to leave it at that, just eyes on.

Then trump goes, Johnson's in trouble (both erstwhile friends of Putin), zelensky also in trouble domestically thinks he can follow how the wind's going. Maybe even something was suggested - I do have my suspicions about how he kept going on about a no fly zone when with even a casual objective view he should have known that would never happen. Putin now starts paying full attention and as soon as the azovs next overstep the mark goes full tilt. This is ofc exactly what downing Street and the white house both want and by extension wider nato too. They want putin to be the bad guy again because different people are in charge now and quite frankly Putin's been getting too big for his size tens anyway.

And just like that, zelensky has thrown his country to the wolves.

It is totally inaccurate, but it’s not my job to educate you. I don’t agree with anything that you say, and thankfully nor does the vast majority of the world.

Oh you sweet summer child.

Hear hear.

And Honper's tediously supercilious attitude is typical of what many Ukrainian journalists are describing as Westsplaining and trying to combat to get people understanding far more about the long history of both countries and Russia's countless imperial and colonising ambitions.

Thank you Dappled. Unfortunately these threads inevitably attract the like of Honper and her ilk, who then go on to embarrass themselves.

Are those the same Ukrainian journalists who were after zelensky's resignation 15 months ago? The ones who doggedly uncovered his offshore accounts and the direct trail between him and a certain zillion dollar yacht, last seen in montenegro? The ones who covered the protests against his regime even though they knew they were putting themselves on the line by doing so? Or are they other guys?

Mostly the ones who lived through the Maidan and all the ideals that was about, who respect Zelensky as an incredible figurehead and spokesman for his country even if they didn't entirely support him prior to the full scale invasion, who carefully and concisely debunk plenty of myths and provide the context of hundreds of years of history.

UA Explainers and #Ukrainianspaces are fantastic.

Are any of the tanks that you propose to send able to use Ukrainian highways? They may be tougher than T-72s but 20 tonnes heavier.
Germany will not supply tanks until 2024 at the earliest, if Poland give their tanks to Ukraine, Germany will not provide the necessary spares.
Poor, terrified civilians are dying every day so that armchair warmongers can cheer on a proxy war.

'Russia have failed in their war against a country a fraction of their size'.

Well. Bear in mind the whole world is sending money, AI hackers, tanks etc. to Ukraine.

Hasn't Biden requested to send more money than they had used in Afghanistan?

It's pretty much a war of Russia vs the world. I'm actually more surprised (and a bit scared) that the Russia is still standing.

@donquixotedelamancha

Fewer tanks. Not more than others.

Remember that our country is not at war and it is not our war, so Rishi won't be agreeing anything with Russia. People like to forget this.

I don't think we should lead. At all. Or follow US. Also Churchillian days are over. If everyone else is sending stuff, we should, in proportion, and in relation to our means.

Boris Johnson clearly used trips to Ukrainian to distract at home, and to try to build his reputation/add some stardust to his ailing premiership.

We have no money, We keep being told. That is a critical fact. Also the government will continue to pretend to us that every pay rise refused or inflation rise is related to Ukraine. It isn't always.

And finally-we apparently have no money!

But do you say The Spain, The Germany? Nope.

The United Kingdom and The United States needs The in front of it, The Spain and The Germany do not. The Ukraine is not correct. It's Ukraine.

Tanks. All of the tanks.

Actually, maybe keep one or two back to deal with some of the views on here!

I think it'll be fine @Furries a few taysers and water cannon should do the trick

Thanks may become obsolete, as all technology does, but they are still can dramatically alter the outcome on the battle field. Hence Ukraine's urgent requests for them and other countries reluctance to send them.