Tanks or no Tanks for Ukraine?

[Samedaysameshit]

My view is yes but interested in what the opinion is out there?
What are we prepared to watch unfold in Ukraine? If Russia’s spring offensive works and they roll all the way to the Poland border what do we do then?

Yes, the least worst option.

Tanks.
Putin is of the lineage of Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot, and absolutely must be stopped. He is power crazy and irrational and he doesn't care how many of his own people die or how many lies he tells them, let alone anyone else.
Germany, understandably cautious, will come round, but it must be soon, hopefully today or tomorrow. We - collectively the democracies of the world - cannot but stand up to him. It's crucial to the future.

Kent will be safe whatever. Just turn all the HGVs in the queue for Dover sideways and you'd have a 500mile sea wall.

Putin is a bully. We stand up to bullies. That was how my parents justified WW2. And the more hysterical team Putin get about the UK, the more we know it's working. We are of course also doing Chinas dirty work. But since they do some much of ours, it seems a fair exchange.

Geopolitics, eh ? Never a dull moment.

Reparations for sending tanks through Ukraine to attack Russia like they did before?

Send our surplus if Ukraine wants them..we ARE at war with Russia and have been for some time. We just aren't fighting them soldier to soldier.

😆😂

@heldinadream

What on earth do you think we have been doing all this time except standing up to him?

Of course we are.

Re standing up to him however it would have been good fo have done this before he crossed over into Ukraine

Oh I quite agree. He's been going down this path for many years and we - the west - did not take it seriously enough. We have though been standing up to him this time round. But it must be a decisive response, and I'm disappointed Germany is equivocating.
Just making a case for the tanks, as per the thread question.

No tanks. We shouldn't be getting involved in any of it

Would you have taken a similar stance towards Hitler in WW2?

@SerendipityJane - "We are of course also doing Chinas dirty work. But since they do some much of ours, it seems a fair exchange."

Just curious what dirty work you mean?

I say send the tanks - make it 24 - 2 squadrons.

Reasonably confident the Poles will send Leopards, as they have a good grasp of what we're up against.

@heldinadream no of course but, but if this carries on we will end up in another world war.

I'm scared🤷🏻‍♀️

I don't think @nationallampoons means not to be involved at all.

The situation is rather different as are the implications of such potentially escalating actions, and the methods of warfare that might be used. I'm thinking nuclear particularly.

Involvement by alternative means to bring about a ceasefire and peace, is absolutely necessary yes. Not providing tanks. In my opinion.

It's scary for sure. But not fighting back is really the scarier option, because Putin really does want the west and democracy to fail. He won't stop if he 'has' Ukraine. It'll be Poland next.

Besides which we cannot let him simply take over what was a free and separate country and kill its citizens, even if they are not yet Nato members.

Do you read the long Ukraine threads? Many very knowledgeable and level headed commenters, they are really helpful to get more of a handle on it, and the more you understand I find the more you can manage your (understandable) fears.

Here's the latest page of the threads.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4719990-ukraine-invasion-part-37?page=2&reply=123261083

My brother was in the army and did yours of Iraq and Afghanistan. He didn't come back the same person. War terrifies me

War is terrifying. I'm so sorry to hear about your brother. But Putin started this, and is responsible for it. Personally I'd be very relieved if he dropped dead ASAP, although I'm sure there are more of them, but I think it would be a chance for some kind of rapprochement., or the beginnings of one.

The Russians have proved to be spectacularly inept in combined arms operations, particularly in regard to air support. The tanks can’t speak to the planes, planes can’t speak to the tanks. Combine an armoured punch with infantry and aaa support and your slow moving helicopter won’t survive contact with a properly protected force. We have sent enough manpads and anti aircraft tech to protect any attacking force.

I’m not saying this will be perfect and that the Ukrainians won’t take casualties but if they’re properly trained and equipped then the poorly trained conscripts shouldn’t present much of a problem.

You all that cheap shit we get from China ?

You know why it's cheap ?

And if you don't, their land and rivers and fish and birds (what's left of them) do.

Worth knowing, as the UK with it's shitty rivers and coasts is already getting there.

It will definitely end up in a World War if we ignore it and Putin carries on.

I think we are on one by proxy. All the baddies against the Goodies.

I think that’s unfair . Germany don’t have to for the rest of time be acting a certain way because of the past. They can do what they feel necessary they don’t have to do more to make up for the crimes of the past

@Horticultur I agree, they shouldn’t have to. I think they have a very respectful and considered attitude to what has gone on before. However, the past has been brought up as a direct factor in why they are hesitating to supply tanks now.

They are inept because there is no passion behind their cause. The men on the ground know it’s wrong, majority don’t want to be there they were most likely forced.
sending planes and tanks would be a temporary solution. It’s a shame there’s not a way to get to them and make them realise if they all say no then there’s no war if nobody will fight. Seems to be the mouthpiece high ranking officials driving it but hiding behind men they’ve forced.

There must be another way to get to them and get them out so putin has nobody to do his work

I think they should be able to say no if they want to and not to be guilt tripped Into making a decision . It’s a difficult area, the whole situation is awful

I agree again, we are all in this terrible situation and it is of none of our making.

I do have the feeling that whatever we do or don’t do , whatever other countries do or don’t do that it will be escalated to the level Putin has already set his sights on. If we give him reasons to do so he will grasp onto them , if we don’t he will make something up