Would you be okay with a 10 year old using the ladies?

[helpinghandinhisname]

Accompanied by their carer obviously

The disabled toilet was locked, there were two and both weren't responding to the access key this poor woman had

She had a very clearly disabled boy with her. He was in need of a change and crying, ripping at her coat and trying to bite and scratch her. No verbal words, just very flight risky and tried bolting off a few times. He had what looked like toddler reins on but obviously not exactly toddler ones

I say age 10 but that's generous, he was probably about 11/12. As tall as the woman etc and she wasn't tiny

She gave up then after he successful did manage to bite into her arm and marched him into the ladies

My friend was tutting and looked ready to say something, pretty much doing that look as if she was about to speak if the woman looked in her direction

I said leave her be. She said it was disgusting she was bringing such an older child into the toilet when he wasn't a small child or under 8/9.

I said she was desperate, leave her be

She said 'whatever, it isn't right and I'm shocked you're standing for it'. It seemed to ruin the mood of our coffee out then and we haven't text since!

Would you be okay with a much older boy using a woman's toilet if they're with a carer?

Obviously, this isn't a trans argument and nobody 'identifying' as a woman should be using the ladies toilet.

This really isn't about that so I would appreciate if we could avoid that argument

You're vile for saying you would attack a vulnerable child. That's not ok.

@Schoolchoicesucks I used to use them but got shouted at by a man (obviously!) Who said I wasn't disabled enough.

Jesus wept, talk about drama. No one has shamed you, no one has said it was your fault.

What isn’t ok is for you to think it’s ok to attack a disabled child. And sit by that statement as if it’s totally acceptable

Stop twisting it ,it's the fact you said you wouldn't be able to stop.yourself attacking disabled children,peop!e have an issue ,with not what you went through which must have been horrific .

Ten is about the limit of what would be okay imo, my own ten y/o (not NT, but no severe support needs) I would send in the men's

The reason I say it's the limit btw isn't because of the women in there. It's because it isn't fair on the child/disabled person. I am disabled, I require help to use the toilet. Luckily I'm a lesbian (with only sisters), so incredibly unlikely to require help from a man. But if I did need help from a man, would it be fair for him to take me in the men's? Cause I could be causing as minimal a scene as possible, so would quietly going along with what he said.

It assumes that just because a disabled person isn't verbalising their distress, they are automatically comfortable with a situation.

Nobody has shamed you for anything other than saying you would attack a little boy ‘who would definitely come off worst’. Do you not think that those of us in the position of having a disabled child might find that a wee bit of an upsetting prospect?! Or are we just meant to be fine with the idea of our children being battered because they aren’t able to use the toilet by themselves?

For the last time it is completely involuntary. Its not something I'm choosing to fucking do.

It's called a flashback, go look it up.

Of course that’s fine. All toilets should just have cubicles anyone can use - avoid this being a question

A child, no. A little kid won't trigger anything. A strapping 12 year old who is about my height? Yeah that's possible.

He is a child who needed the bathroom so of course it's okay.

Generally I am fine with sharing women's bathrooms as long as people wash their hands.

Even people who have been incredibly traumatised can learn to control their behaviour when triggered if they want to.

Yeah lcb, I agree with that. It would avoid all everyone's struggles, the trans arguments. They should just be self contained cubicals. I prefer places like that, they feel safer and are probably harder to vandalise too.

I am learning to. But it will take time. This time last year my therapist was rocking me on the hall floor. Now I'm venturing out shopping. Or I was until this thread anyway.

Also not an issue.
The alternative would be the woman having to take him into the mens and have to watch men urinating in open urinals.
Who is more at risk here?
The lady carer or relative in the men s open toilets having to walk past men with bits on display as they pee.
Or other women when she and the person go into a closed cubicle.

People need to get over themselves. Really.
a woman was struggling with a disabled boy needing to get him onto the washroom. Where were the offers to help? No, just criticism. FFS. If I was in the situation with the child I'd go about my business helping the child and have sone choice replies to anyone who stared or muttered about it. Otherwise I would've offered help.

Well this is an excellent chance to work with your coping behaviours then.

Haven't RTFT but your friend is an idiot. I have no issue whatsoever with a disabled male of any age being with a carer in a female loo. What is the risk ffs? Some people have become so focused on their own feelings, preferences and comfort that they totally disregard the needs of others. There should be more family/disabled public toilets for situations like this but I really think people need to get over themselves and have a little humanity. For those saying it's unacceptable, what exactly is your problem with it? In what way do you think a disabled child is a threat to you?

Disabled 12_ year olds very in size mine is tiny and looks about nine ,the other boys in his class ( he's in a special school for children with severe to profound learning disabilities) are much taller ,they are all still severely disabled children however who are all non verbal and extremely vulnerable.

Vary*

5'4 is the average size of a 14 yr old boy according to my red book. Way over the top percentile given for 10. And being very aggressive to his carer to the extent of actually biting, and getting away from his carer at times. I can see some women would find him intimidating.

It is an emergency and in that situation anyone ends up using any facility.
If all the men's loos are out of order, everyone ends up using the ladies' too. As in a PP's example, normally you'd warn women already in/coming in so they could wait or go elsewhere if they need to.

I do think you or your friend could have helped OP, sounds like you were watching the poor lady struggle for some time. Another time perhaps you could get staff attention so they could get the disabled door open, or offer to let people know in the ladies' and make sure the disabled cubicle was free. The carer was obviously trying to avoid taking him in the ladies', so she'd probably have appreciated having the way cleared for her.

Sounds like friend was quite rude, is it possible she wasn't watching as much as you to understand the situation? Obviously we weren't there so don't know how much she must have seen, but if she just saw aggressive teenaged boy being wrestled into the ladies? Or maybe she's just intolerant.

I completely agree with you on the dignity perspective but if the only disabled toilets where inaccessible then what alternative did his carer have?

ds is 13 and we have used disabled toilets since he was about 7 for dignities sake for him but if there is no alternative then I would do what the lady in this situation did. And then make sure I complain to the appropriate people about the rubbish access

@Bigdamnheroes I'm so sorry for what happened to you.
You don't deserve this ire you're getting. Maybe a gentle prod to seek more counselling or coping mechanisms as it's never okay to hit anyone, especially a child. But I get why you are triggered.
Seriously think some posters needs to think of their 9 year old child getting raped? I have an 8 year old and it makes me wanna die inside.

Jesus Christ no people don't need to think of their child getting raped / what a disgusting thing to say.

It's possible to empathise without such detail.

I do understand the reaction of that poster but I don't understand why, when thinking rationally, they cannot see that the issue is theirs, and that bringing a disabled child into the toilets isn't wrong.

And I have a disabled ,child who is extremely vulnerable ,who cannot defend himself ,may e you should also show some empathy?

Given that attacking a disabled child or adult, or a male cleaner which many places use, would be absolutely out of order you should use the disabled facilities.

What happened to you is awful, but it’s not reasonable to risk attacking and traumatising someone else. It’s not excusable.