Page 12 | When people (men) insist on walking you home

Checkedtowel · 2022-12-21T15:25:32+00:00

I was out at a social thing last night and ended up being last there with 2 men, primarily because we're the ones who've finished work for Christmas so the only ones who didn't need to be up this morning. Anyway it was about 11pm and a 15 minute walk home. Similar for them (they live close to each other) but in a different direction. I'd planned to walk home alone anyway. O walked there on my own, I told them I was fine walking home on my own. I know there is a small risk but it's a risk I'm prepared to take and refuse to restrict my life out of fear. I'm not uncomfortable doing this walk which I've done many times before. I don't know these men particularly well so could have been at risk from them as much as anyone else. Anyway, they insisted and both accompanied me to my door then set off to walk back in the other direction. It's happened to me before too. Often when out in a group close to home someone will insist on seeing me home. Some female friends even instruct their husband's to take me! Is this lovely or chauvinistic and a little controlling?

MardyMincepie · 22/12/2022 12:19

It’s considerate but each situation is slightly different and women have to trust their gut here.

@astronewt has explained perfectly about who rapists and violent men can be.

All of us will at some point in our lives have talked to rapists and survivors of rape and abuse. We just don’t know who.

IamtheElephant · 22/12/2022 12:28

astronewt · 22/12/2022 11:40

Have any of you "shut up and be grateful for the menz who don't listen to you" actually listened to the several posters who were raped by the "nice guy" that walked them home?

You're telling yourself a fairy story. A fairy story about wild-eyed, psychotic predators lurking in bushes that you can ward off if you just do the right things, like keep a "nice man" with you. The fact is, the predators you know look normal. They wear jeans and T-shirts. They have jobs. They are neat and tidy and they smile and they have mothers and girlfriends and children and they drink in your pub. They have lots of people willing to swear that they're nice, good guys. But they all have one thing in common; they don't think a woman has the right to decide what happens to her.

This. 👆
Most women are raped by someone they know and yet so many women still insist it's unkind not to blindly believe that any random acquaintance who wants to walk you home has good intentions. 🙄

FlirtyMelons · 22/12/2022 12:40

sheepdogdelight · 22/12/2022 10:52

You'd be annoyed if they walked a woman home if she asked them not to?
Absolutely correct that they should offer - I've told my own 18 year old DS he should always offer to walk a woman home if she'd otherwise be on her own. I've also told him that if women say "no" they mean "no".

(ironically 18 year old boys are much more likely to be attacked round here then lone women, so maybe the woman should be walking with DS for his protection?)

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No, my subsequent posts have clarified my views on this. That if told no then they shouldn't insist on walking them. The OP was quite vague IMO and she just said that she'll be fine, to me that sounds that as if she is being polite and doesn't want to put them out. If I had been them I would have double checked she wanted to walk home alone and then accepted her decision. In posts after the OP she clarifies she said no repeatedly, in which case they 100% should have listened (it shouldn't have required repeated telling).

I have been attacked twice walking home alone in late teens/early 20s. Both times I was offered to have someone walk with me or share a cab. I declined as the 1st time i didnt know the people offering, 2nd time i had no cash left for cab, and wished I hadn't declined after the event.. Luckily neither situations were serious, I ran away the 1st time and got to a friends house, the 2nd time a stranger came round the corner and helped me (a man). He got me a cab and paid foe, it, he offered to come in it with me but accepted when I said no. I appreciate that this probably taints my views.

My 16 yo son was in a situation recently where 2 girls in the group he was with got really drunk, he didn't really know them and the other boys just left, there were 2 sober girls (his close friends) also. The sober girls decided to go straight home leaving the other 2 unsafe and no way of getting home as they could not walk well enough. They were so drunk they kept saying they'd be fine, which they clearly wouldn't be so he got an uber with them and took them home to their parents. Should he have left them?

Original poster

Checkedtowel · 22/12/2022 12:43

FlirtyMelons · 22/12/2022 12:40

No, my subsequent posts have clarified my views on this. That if told no then they shouldn't insist on walking them. The OP was quite vague IMO and she just said that she'll be fine, to me that sounds that as if she is being polite and doesn't want to put them out. If I had been them I would have double checked she wanted to walk home alone and then accepted her decision. In posts after the OP she clarifies she said no repeatedly, in which case they 100% should have listened (it shouldn't have required repeated telling).

I have been attacked twice walking home alone in late teens/early 20s. Both times I was offered to have someone walk with me or share a cab. I declined as the 1st time i didnt know the people offering, 2nd time i had no cash left for cab, and wished I hadn't declined after the event.. Luckily neither situations were serious, I ran away the 1st time and got to a friends house, the 2nd time a stranger came round the corner and helped me (a man). He got me a cab and paid foe, it, he offered to come in it with me but accepted when I said no. I appreciate that this probably taints my views.

My 16 yo son was in a situation recently where 2 girls in the group he was with got really drunk, he didn't really know them and the other boys just left, there were 2 sober girls (his close friends) also. The sober girls decided to go straight home leaving the other 2 unsafe and no way of getting home as they could not walk well enough. They were so drunk they kept saying they'd be fine, which they clearly wouldn't be so he got an uber with them and took them home to their parents. Should he have left them?

Show quote history

Why does every response have to be my son/husband the hero? The situations are not the same at all. I'm a fully formed adult who was perfectly capable and said no.

OP posts:

FlirtyMelons · 22/12/2022 12:45

@Checkedtowel yes and i have admitted in your situation they should not have insisted, from your 1st post I didn't think that but on reading your further posts i changed my mind. Who said anyone's husband or son was a hero though, that's just nonsense and a bit nasty TBH. There are lots of different scenarios, but other posters are saying if someone says they are fine then leave it, I disagree as it isn't that straight forward.

BigFatLiar · 22/12/2022 13:00

Why does every response have to be my son/husband the hero?

They don't, at the end of the evening they just say good night and make their own way home. Your safety and travel arrangements are your responsibility not theirs. We need to educate men that women are able to take care of themselves. The concept of women and children first is outdated in days of equality.

beastlyslumber · 22/12/2022 13:17

Haven't heard 'not my Nigel' for years! But the NMNers are out in force on this thread

Insideknowledge · 22/12/2022 13:20

It's about time there was a government campaing along the lines of "not my Nigel" to educate half the populations (it appears looking at this thread) what consent and rape looks like.

It's horrifying the victim blaming on this thread.

beastlyslumber · 22/12/2022 13:28

I know, and they keep coming! I'm actually amazed.

ScrollingLeaves · 22/12/2022 13:32

We need to educate men that women are able to take care of themselves

It isn’t that easy without a gun and an Alsatian.

I would not go jogging in a park or along a canal at a lonely time, or be alone and drunk in a city centre.

beastlyslumber · 22/12/2022 13:34

I would not go jogging in a park or along a canal at a lonely time, or be alone and drunk in a city centre.

That's fine. That's your choice. You can't tell other women that they can't do it, though, or that they need a male chaperone. It's up to them.

I've done both those things, many times. I appreciate that there is some risk but I refuse to curtail my life or live my life in fear.

MolkosTeenageAngst · 22/12/2022 13:42

I was raped by a man (who I’d only met that night) who insisted on walking me back to my hotel after I got separated from my friends whilst at a bar. He was local to the area (abroad) and insisted it wasn’t safe for me to walk on my own, he seemed nice and trustworthy and I was a bit anxious about walking home on my own so I let him walk me back. He pulled me into an empty room in the hotel and raped me so I would be very wary about letting any man walk me home now ‘for safety’ unless he was a close friend or family member.

sheepdogdelight · 22/12/2022 13:48

ScrollingLeaves · 22/12/2022 13:32

We need to educate men that women are able to take care of themselves

It isn’t that easy without a gun and an Alsatian.

I would not go jogging in a park or along a canal at a lonely time, or be alone and drunk in a city centre.

But you might go on a walk to your local shop through a well lit residential area even if it's night time?

Women are capable of making their own risk assessments

ScrollingLeaves · 22/12/2022 13:54

MolkosTeenageAngst· Today 13:42
I was raped by a man (who I’d only met that night) who insisted on walking me back to my hotel after I got separated from my friends whilst at a bar. He was local to the area (abroad) and insisted it wasn’t safe for me to walk on my own, he seemed nice and trustworthy and I was a bit anxious about walking home on my own so I let him walk me back. He pulled me into an empty room in the hotel and raped me so I would be very wary about letting any man walk me home now ‘for safety’ unless he was a close friend or family member

That is awful Molkos, I am so sorry for what happened to you.

This thread is clearly showing that ‘let me walk you home to keep you safe’ is a rapist’s ploy and a red flag.

I don’t think there is a warning generally given to watch out for this.

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 22/12/2022 20:49

@MolkosTeenageAngst I'm so sorry to you and every woman. There's no 'perfect' behaviour or option that we can choose that will keep us safe. There are times we might turn down an escort and then wish retrospectively we had had one, and times (way more often then most people realise) the escort is the danger.

I'm just trying to make the point @FlirtyMelons that if we can get the genuinely awesome guys to behave in ways that support consent and boundaries rather than eroding them that would be great. I know a bouncer, dealing with scantily clad lasses he doesn't know who've drunk way too much is a weekly occurrence. Would he put them in a car and take them somewhere or tolerate one of his team doing that - absolutely not.

things a guy can do

b) ask questions, can she walk? does she know where she's going? does she have friends? Does she know where they are?
a) offer help? Can he call anyone to come fetch her? Call her a taxi? Get her a coffee? Would she like him to sit with her for a while until she sobers up a little?

If she's like "nope I'm fine" and walks off down the road you don't prevent her or follow her because that's creepy and intrusive.

Seeingadistance · 22/12/2022 22:52

All these people saying the OP wasn’t clear in her refusal of the offer to be walked home - research has shown that rapists do understand rejections which don’t include the word “no”. They understand perfectly well, and they choose to ignore.

I read this, or a similar article, a while back, and this thread reminded me of it.

yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/21/mythcommunication-its-not-that-they-dont-understand-they-just-dont-like-the-answer/

Basically, we are accustomed to delivering and receiving refusals in roundabout, socially normal and understand terms in which the word “no” is neither used nor required. When the OP responded to their offer by saying she was fine, that is a normal and readily understood way of politely refusing, of saying “no”.

Men who choose to ignore a woman, will ignore her no matter what words she uses. They understand perfectly, they choose to ignore her!

howdoesatoastermaketoast · 22/12/2022 23:25

@Seeingadistance yup I think you're exactly right. One useful way of thinking of it I encountered so long ago I can't remember who to credit is the tendency to see a woman's refusal in the light of an obstacle to be overcome. So pushy men don't see themselves as ignoring women's wishes but more as having 'won' the argument, or succeeded at persuasion.

In my experience the ONLY thing this sort of man will respect is another man's claim. My boyfriend is picking me up (suddenly no problem). My boyfriend is going to walk out and meet me halfway (betcha it stops being a problem). My boyfriends waiting for me at home and he wouldn't like it if I turned up with a guy.

It depresses me that the feelings of hypothetical men seem to matter more than ours but it does seem to be the case on occasion.

MissingMoominMamma · 12/03/2023 21:39

I have a friend who does this. At the end of the evening, I just want a bit of time to myself as I walk back to my car, but he insists on accompanying me. I know it would hurt his feelings if I insisted…

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 12/03/2023 22:38

I know it would hurt his feelings if I insisted…

Why do his feelings matter and yours not?

FairyDustAndUnicorns · 18/06/2023 02:01

You say you are equally at risk with colleagues but I would hope you don't actually think your colleagues are rapists or murderers. If you do I wouldn't have gone for the night out in the first place!

Statistically I believe most people are raped and murdered by people they know at least vaguely.

msssm · 18/06/2023 02:19

Zombie...

CoalTit · 25/08/2023 22:43

Checkedtowel · 22/12/2022 09:46

It's staggering how determined some women are not to understand the issue here. Why can't people see that by creating a social norm where women are expected to accept help from men they barely know, that it's rude to refuse and please consider how they'd feel if something awful happened to you , they actually create a situation where women are at increased risk? In the balance of probabilities, a woman is far more likely to be attacked by someone she chatted to in the pub than a random on the street.

If course all your husbands and sons are wonderful, but you know not all men are (or this wouldn't be a discussion at all) and yet you want women to automatically assume they'll be safe with your (all) men and please don't hurt their feelings

Quoting you because I'm apalled by all the people on here telling you that you should be grateful or that you probably didn't say no clearly enough. They really need to read what you're saying.

Men who insist on following you home against your wishes are statistically more dangerous than other men and you are sensible to tell them no, even though these ones turned out to be genuinely chivalrous.

My heartfelt sympathy to the women on here who were raped or harassed by men pretending to be chivalrous.