I cannot believe the conversation I just had with my dickhead ex about his Xmas plans. I need impartial views on what I should do.

[Rantaboutmytwatofanex]

Ex and I have 2 daughters, both under 7, we split when they were a newborn and 2 and have been attempting to co-parent since.

There is a long and colourful history of him being a mediocre father, and he has only had them for Christmas one half day (his choice) but has insisted on Christmas this year as it falls on his weekend. I'm obviously gutted to miss out for myself, but I'm excited the girls will spend the day with their dad.

Knowing what he is like I asked what he had bought them and if he has a stocking sorted etc.

He has bought them both 1 inappropriate gift each (stuff that he wants, and the girls have no interest in and are far too young for) and he said he isn't pissing about doing a stocking for them as he never had when he was a kid. He has no extra food in because they can have leftovers when I pick them up and he will just do pizza.

They won't miss out because I have stuff they need/have asked for/will like, and I know they will be really grateful for what they recieve at his house, but the things he has aren't even toys and are totally unusable for the girls.

So my choices are:

Leave them to have a no effort Christmas with their dad.

Provide the stockings they have here which will include treat food and small toys and books and give him all the santa key, reindeer food etc that make Xmas magic for little ones.

Tell him to fuck off and I just do Xmas as normal here and keep them.

I think I'm swaying towards the second option as they do love him, but I also resent the fact I have to put in the effort because he can't be arsed.

I've already spoken to him and he will not be making any additional effort at all, so that's not an option.

Any advice about what I should do?

He’s not a dad. He’s a sperm donor.

Tell him to fuck off, if he is not creating a magical Christmas for them then he can have them Boxing Day instead.

Option 1 is the ONLY really viable option IMO. Don't protect the children from how bad he is - and Don't give him the stockings. As someone else said, they probably won't really take it in if they are small enough.

You get them home on Christmas Night and you can open presents then. I would tell them in advance that Santa decided he would leave the gifts at yours and they will get them when they come back from their Dad's. With a bit of luck they will want to come home early!

I think it's absolutely shocking the amount of posters telling OP to send the kids to her ex. How can anyone do that to small children...knowing they'll wake up to no presents from Santa. I don't care that it can be done when they get home, it's not the same. The useless ex will most likely be sleeping and leave them on their own. OP, I'm sorry to say but you're being cruel if you send them.

Let him give them his shitty Xmas and then you have another proper Xmas when they come home, honestly there’s no helping some people do t let your children think he made the effort that you did

Opening presents on Christmas Eve is not the same (unless you come from that tradition and are used to it), waiting and opening them, as a child, at 7 pm on C Day is not the same, a roast dinner and xmas pud on Boxing Day is not the same. Don't ask me why, it just isn't. I think they would have a really flat, dull day with a man who sounds a complete emotional illiterate/borderline sociopath, and it just wouldn't be fair on them.

Option 4, This
He does his Christmas and you do a proper one once they are back with you

If he does have them and you give him the,stocking etc, he will take all credit for them.

Small crumb of comfort if they go to dickhead's. They will enjoy Christmas much more with you and in future times not want to go!!!

Honestly I would not let him have them for Xmas and I don't say that lightly!

Either option 1 or 3

Thank you all.

All your thoughts are what have been running through my head, one second I'm determined to keep them at home, then I think oldest dd will feel bad because he's alone all day (he makes sure they know he's alone when they aren't there), so I think I'll let them go, but the thought of them being excited for santa coming and he doesn't arrive is so upsetting, so then I think I'll send all the stuff, but that's obviously just delaying the inevitable and causing problems for later. I feel so much guilt for each scenario.

I cant remember who asked why we split, I'm sure it will come as no shock to know I was working 2 jobs, he didn't work, I was at varying stages of breastfeeding and pregnancy and still working and doing everything at home and he did nothing but complain that I didnt wear enough makeup or shag him enough. I was doing all the nights, working at 5.30am, coming home, pumping milk, then work again, then home tidy up, get my other kids etc while he 'worked on his music'.

I didn't recognise how bad it was as my marriage was abusive, and he never hit me so I thought it was OK.

I didn't mean to make my cancer sound really dramatic, almost nobody dies of the type I have, so I will be ok, just a miserable few months of treatments and a nasty operation to contend with.

My boyfriend is great and would happily take the girls, but I do worry what ex would say to them, which is the main reason he hasnt 'moved in yet, although he is going to stay for a few weeks after my operation, and I'll take things from there. I just know what my ex is like, although when he had a girlfriend for a while I was delighted as he seemed to step up for a while, yet he told my daughters I didn't like it.

There's no real good way to do this that won't result in some hurt for my girls, it's just trying to find the least painful option for them.

How about bringing their stockings in the car for them to open on the way home? Tell them Santa will probably deliver them to your house, so you’ll bring them with you. And an early Xmas Eve box/present the evening before they go with something little they’ll love and could take? I wouldn’t tell them Xmas is on a different day, it will backfire on you. Just tell them you’ve lots of lovely things waiting for when they come back.

@Rantaboutmytwatofanex

I think you need to research Parental Alienation. Then see a solicitor. This shit he's pulling needs to stop.

He actually accused me of parental alienation when I didn't allow contact on his terms of 2 hours here and there, i just couldn't accommodate it with work and childcare.

He told me he would tell the girls how I prevented him from seeing them and how much they would hate me etc.

I know he's trying to make himself look good to the girls, I never really considered he was trying to do it at my expense, but I suppose it does seem like that.

I know it’s hard but you need to say to him if you cannot or will not give the children a decent Christmas with decent food then you can’t have them. It doesn’t matter what you think he tells them.
Alternatively be honest- Dad’s got you nothing, no snacks and no stockings, where do you want to be. Every time one of them says he will be lonely you say his choice he can go to his mum. Or his choice, he doesn’t go anywhere so that it makes you feel bad. It’s playing him at his own game but staying within the truth.

one second I'm determined to keep them at home, then I think oldest dd will feel bad because he's alone all day (he makes sure they know he's alone when they aren't there), so I think I'll let them go

OP I mean this kindly, but perhaps reflect on what you are teaching them here? They aren't his support humans. You know he's emotionally manipulating them by telling them sad tales about how mummy is mean, mummy takes my money so I'm cold, mummy doesn't let you see me so I'm lonely. You need to put a stop to it otherwise you are setting them up for a lifetime of relationships with men who act in this exact same way.

I know that sounds harsh but you're actually putting his needs above theirs at this point, and it needs to stop.

I agree with PP that you should see a solicitor and make him go to court for access.

@Rantaboutmytwatofanex you sound a fabulous mum, who has been through a lot!

I was with someone, who had very similar traits to your ex! And the guilt trips, gaslighting and emotional abuse that you have endured should not be taken lightly. He likes the control he has over you and he can do this through the kids. I am like you and ALWAYS think of his feelings (despite what he tells me), then I come on here for a sounding board as I feel like a mug! I would put your foot down have have the kids, if that's deep down what you want. It's like he is goading you by telling you how crap their Christmas is going to be to cause you pain. He is a parasite. Just do what you want to do or leave it up to the kids. I'm so sorry for what you've been through xxx

You are your dc are still in an abusive relationship op and he only wants Christmas Eve and Christmas Day to continue the abuse, he’s inspired by your cancer diagnosis because it means you probably need him more and he’s a sick fuck. You have the power to say no, use alternative childcare if he responds as you think he will by REFUSING TO LOOK AFTER HIS OWN CHILDREN WHILE YOU HAVE AN OPERATION FOR YOUR CANCER. don’t continue letting him play these abusive games with all of you. No to Christmas, no to begging him to help look after his own dc when you’re sick, no no no. Make their Christmas magic. It may not be an aggressive cancer but shit happens and in your place I would cross hell or high water to make it a lovely Christmas. Say the cars broken down if you have to (preferably LATE Christmas Eve) but please don’t send them.

This is the best idea, make Christmas night your Christmas Eve and Boxing Day Christmas Day, my daughter is doing something similar 🤶

Would it be worth a call to women’s aid to get some advice about your general situation with him?

Parental alienation is often used by domestic abusers to gaslight women, and courts, to force access that is harming the children, or the mother.

I don’t know that this access is harming your children but it does sound like he’s manipulating everyone.

It might be helpful, and a relief, to get some advice about how to handle conversations like this so that you’re at less of a disadvantage?

I’m sorry to raise this but Im glad you’re going slowly with the new boyfriend because it’s very common for abusers to target women coming out of other abusive relationships. Keep listening to your instincts and always trust yourself.

Wishing you well and hope you all have a good Christmas! x

Just awful! I would love to say I would send nothing but I don't think i could, there's no way i would send all my lovely presents but i would probably just get 2 cheap stockings and put in some sweets and a little colouring books and a little bead set or pony from Poundland. A treaty buffet when they get home then a proper xmas day the next day!

He's toxic and abusing you all still! If you send their stockings over then you're enabling his behaviour! What will that teach your children?
They are young enough that you can blag some story about Santa probably leaving his presents at yours and they're back Christmas evening anyway!
Lovely treats when they're home and Christmas dinner on Boxing Day.
They'll still get the magical Christmas that you want them to have, just a few hours later.
Going forward, they need to see him for the abusive waste of space father that he is and that you're their constant.
Don't enable him, otherwise you either need to carry it on forever, or the children will be older when you stop and that will confuse them even more.
Or just don't send them. He doesn't sound like he deserves them anyway.

How about you send the dc, keep the stockings and FaceTime them in the morning with what FC has left for them at home so they still get the excitement of Christmas morning

Option one but I would have your Christmas Day on Christmas Eve rather than Boxing Day. By actual Christmas Day they'll have had their excitement and be bored of the whole thing which sounds ideal for what your ex is planning ie nothing.

Very well put. He doesn’t deserve to have them and he’s deliberately making it shit for them because after the Christmas tree incident he knows you will step in. It’s not your eldest DD’s responsibility to make sure he is not on his own. He’s a grown adult with choices. They are little children without many choices. And deserve a lovely happy Christmas with family who love them.

the more you update the more I think they need protecting from him and his shit ‘parenting’ as much as possible.