If you were privately educated, are your children?

[roarfeckingroarr]

And if they aren't, do you feel guilty? Was it a moral choice or a financial one?

I had a wonderful experience of private education. I was very very lucky. I always intended to give my children the same opportunities. Now I have a toddler and I'm pregnant, I just don't know if I can afford it and I feel huge guilt. I probably could, just, if we pulled back on everything else.

Argh.

Please don't turn into a private school bashing thread.

This comes up on most private school threads. On the charitable status one too - too much advantage at the same time as a waste of money.

imo keep private as it is no change to status, but if you have a state school you’re happy with then great.

I think @Andante57's point is specifically drawing attention to the large number of people claiming that their children are getting as good or better education in the state system, and achieving just as good results, and that private education is a waste of money. IF that is the case, then there is no unfair leg-up happening, and all those who are currently at a private school would have the same high-achieving outcomes if private education was abolished.

Personally I don't think that it is the case, but it is irrational to simultaneously argue that state education is fit for purpose and doesn't fail to provide an appropriate environment, and also argue that private education provides an advantage.

If private education provides an advantage by delivering a better quality of education than that which can be provided in the state sector, then the fault is whatever is limiting the state sector from achieving that quality (almost certainly about insufficient funding and low staff morale leading to recruitment shortages) and addressing those faults to increase the quality of state education is a better solution than trying to abolish the possibility of achieving the higher quality.

If private education provides no advantage then the fact that it's a free country means that there's no reason for it not to happen. I would love to live in a country where private education is allowed and acceptable but isn't the default choice even for the wealthiest because the state system does everything it needs to at all levels and delivers an excellent quality of outcomes across the board. You cannot achieve that by attacking private education, only by improving state education.

I was privately educated. My DDs absolutely definitely will not be. We can't afford it, but morally I disagree with it and emotionally I would never put my kids through the pressure and misery I went through.

By sacrifice I mean we could have bought a larger house, had a few more holidays etc. I have never and will never throw the money we chose to spend in their faces, they didn’t choose their schooling, we as their parents did. They are free to live their lives as they wish and I will always be there to support them.

the large number of people claiming that their children are getting as good or better education in the state system, and achieving just as good results, and that private education is a waste of money. IF that is the case, then there is no unfair leg-up happening

There is an unfair leg-up because privately educated people are disproportionately represented in top earning jobs and positions of power in this country. They don't get those jobs because they are cleverer or their education was better.

Put it this way - out of everyone who got A star A star A or better at A level in 2019, around 75% of them went to state school. Only 25% of our brightest young people are privately educated. And yet privately educated people hold 61% of cabinet positions, 65% senior judges, 52% diplomats, 59% permanent secretaries, 45% journalists, 57% of UK educated ST Rich List etc etc. That is a lot of top talent from the state sector that we as a nation are missing out on.

Of course A level grades don't necessarily equate to being a good diplomat. But something is helping these privately educated people get most of the good jobs, and it isn't that they are cleverer.

@Franca123 i didn’t say I didn’t meet people who didn’t go to private school, I said I didn’t meet people from a working class background. Lived in a well off area, went to private school - didn’t offer much in the way of mixing with a broad range of people. We operated within a very small bubble, by design. That is a very deliberate aspect of private school, like it or not. Yes, there are scholarships and bursaries and so on, but I challenge anyone to find published criteria for handing those out.

My point, really, is that “education” is far broader than just being hot-housed towards amazing grades. There is a formative emotional and social aspect that matters just as much, which, in my opinion, is probably not delivered in a private school environment, because it can’t be, by virtue of everyone coming from a very tiny social band. I want that for my children, without having to make an artificial effort to engineer it, and so I choose not to give my children the same experience as I had

I still felt the embedded pull of thinking private must be best (and my school was super selective, very academic, top performing etc) - but looking back honestly at the overall experience, I have decided that it had more downsides than the academic upside

out of everyone who got A star A star A or better at A level in 2019, around 75% of them went to state school. Only 25% of our brightest young people are privately educated. And yet privately educated people hold 61% of cabinet positions, 65% senior judges, 52% diplomats, 59% permanent secretaries, 45% journalists, 57% of UK educated ST Rich List etc etc.
I think you will find that Cabinet members, judges, etc didn't take their A Levels in 2019.

I think you will find that Cabinet members, judges, etc didn't take their A Levels in 2019.

Oh that's ok then, my mistake, there is no disproportionate representation of privately educated people in top jobs and positions of power, better tell the Sutton Trust and Oxbridge. Is that really the best you can do?

That was then, this is now.

I was privately educated, and I’ve also taught in private schools, but I rarely use private schools for my own kids as the added value these days can be minimal. It was different 25+ years ago but state schools have changed a lot since then.

Honestly, "that was then this is now", the idea that state school students have only recently started to be clever, since Rishi and co did their A levels (he did his in 1998) 😂

In case you have forgotten, this thread was started by OP asking about schooling for her toddler and her unborn child.
She didn't ask about last century's class struggles.

DH was privately educated, i was state school educated.

Our children are state school educated - but we did choose to buy in catchment for one of the best state schools in Scotland.

DH was privately educated, I went to state schools (in NZ). We home educate.

I'm privately educated, kids won't be. You don't get the networking benefits unless you go to the most exclusive schools which are totally out of budget and I'm not convinced that a private school can offer more than a good state school plus selected extra curriculars.

The plus for private is extra curriculars don't require parents to be home from work to do ferrying, but the provision is mixed quality.

Also to add - DH's parents were by no means wealthy. His dad ran his own small business selling equipment to dentists. His mum was a nurse, part time. They had one car, an average semi detached house, and holidays in a caravan in Wales. They were a very very average family yet could afford two sets of private school fees for DH and his sister.

There is no way that that sort of very average family could afford private school fees today. The school DH goes to now charges £4.5k a term, that's £27k a year for two kids plus the books, uniform etc.

Something's clearly changed - private schools must have got a lot more expensive since the 80s.

In case you have forgotten, this thread was started by OP asking about schooling for her toddler and her unborn child.
She didn't ask about last century's class struggles.

In case you haven't bothered to RTFT, someone asked why people wanted to abolish private education if state education is so good.

I did from 13-18 - I was cushioned from reality as a result . My kids are in the state sector - one Grammar one in the Comp . I will top up with tutoring if needed but they need to mix with a wide demographic and get the street smarts I didn’t.

You may have a point. OP has disappeared so why not crack on discussing something else.

😂

I was, from age 7 to 18 (though i had assisted place and then scholarships). We can't afford to send both DC - even sending one would be a struggle - but we're not poor enough to qualify for assistance. The state secondary they go to is extremely good in any event, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't send them private even if I had the dosh.

I was, at a London school. DS is not.
My education cost around £3k a year, it would cost £25k now (with transport etc). That's almost my entire take home salary!
We looked at it, looked at the local school and realised that for £25k we could provide an awful lot of enrichment, that would be impossible with school fees. So we have backed up school life with trips relevant to studies, private lessons in particular interests/ areas that needed support, sports opportunities, school trips.
His school friends in the village were absolute rocks of support during lockdowns. He wouldn't have had that had we gone with independent education.
DS is currently studying for A level mocks, just finished his online Japanese lesson. We think we made the right choice for us.

I went to private school, then grammar school at 13. My kids are at state schools (very good ones): my eldest is at a grammar school, my youngest at a primary school. The most important thing is that they’re thriving and happy where they are. Sure, I’d have loved to have had the means to give them the education I had, but I’m a single parent and a nurse. My entire annual salary would just about cover one set of fees, so it’s a no-go.

I don’t feel bad about it as they’re happy where they are.

I went to private secondary school. Now my ds is close to secondary age I've looked at private schools but honestly, I really can't afford them.
I'd stretch myself, take a second job or something if I was desperate EG severe bullying that couldn't be resolved but apart from that I don't think it's likely.
I would if I could though.

@Bovrilly
Because people who are privately educated get an unfair leg-up thanks to economic status rather than merit?

and you think abolishing private schools is going to abolish that? The £40k that I’d save if private schools are abolished will go a long way in private tuition and extra curricular activities. It’s like making a law that parents with the means, who want their children to succeed in the equestrian world aren’t allowed to buy their child a horse.