At what age would you leave a child alone in a cafe for an hour?

[CoveredInCobwebs]

DD is nearly 9. Lately she has been asking to stay home sometimes when we are heading out as a family so she can read or draw. I'm not comfortable with that but I do feel sort of, but not entirely, comfortable with the idea of leaving her in an on-site cafe e.g. National Trust cafe while the rest of the family walks around one of the trails.
She could have either my or DH's phone - she wouldn't take the piss and would only use it if there was some sort of emergency. I don't think she is quite old enough yet but I was wondering what age people would think it was ok to do this?

I was going out on bike rides and buying cake and a drink at a cafe for myself at 10+ pretending I was George from Famous Five
Dbro and I were left at home together during school holidays for the morning from 8/9. We played games, built dens using tablecloths and sheets with furniture.

My DC went out and about from about 8. More freedom from 10ish.
These days with phones etc no reason not to do similar as long as the cafe isn't being used as a minding service and DC go and order, pay and eat.
Those saying teenage..well, no words 😳

My DD would go to the cafe next to her school around aged 10 whilst waiting for me to finish work but she knew the area well and many families from the school would go there.

It would depend on how confident they are and where you’re going.

Some places don’t have good signal or they are too quiet or too busy where she’d be asked to move on quickly.

I’m 30 and it’s mad to think just a few years ago I was out all day with no phone and mum had no clue where I was or what I was up to and I worry about my teen DD going to the shops on her own.

Someone started a thread back along wondering if we’re ruining our kids childhoods because we’re too overprotective.

I might have left my 9 year old dd at home for an hour if circumstances were difficult to avoid. I might ask her to stay put in the local library down the road if I needed to post a letter or similar. Not the town centre library though, and certainly not a NT cafe with which she was unfamiliar and knew nobody.
No matter how gung-ho and confident she was.
She was 9. Way too young.

I'm oldish, and at 9 I was out all day in the summer holidays, coming home only for food and drink. But I was on home ground with a group of friends and in and out of their houses. Mother would always know where to find us. We were in a large community, a council estate, where everybody was watching everybody.

There was some risk there, obviously can't deny that. But larking about in a large group of kids in a close knit community is worlds away from sitting in an unfamiliar cafe alone, an hour away from home where you know nobody, and don't have group support if you get into difficulty.

In a group of kids of 4ish or more, if approached, you can take confidence from you peers, recognise it's a bit offish, and bugger off. I've been there. There's definitely safety in numbers. Sitting alone in a cafe where you know nobody?

Not a good place for a 9 year old.

I often go to a coffee shop and I have never seen a child of 9 or 12 sat without a parent. Never mind ordering at the counter FFS.

@Realityloom I go to an event most weeks with a mixed group and then we stop at a cafe.

Granted we are literally sitting right outside, but the two 10 years in the group very happily go inside the cafe on their own, order, pay, sit and eat their breakfast / milkshakes and chat. The cafe owner knows their responsible adults are having coffees and breakfasts outside as we're such regulars, but another customer wouldn't. I can't believe you've never seen a child that age order something for themselves? My 9 year old nephew also does (again, we're there, but he'll confidently go to the counter, order for himself and pay).

I read the OP and thought 8 was a bit young, and an hour a bit long, but I would definitely allow my 9yo to sit for half an hour (with drink and snack obviously - not taking up space without buying anything).

Now I have waded through 8 pages of a ludicrous MN pile-on, I think she would be most at risk from masses of overzealous busybodies who think children shouldn't be left or sent anywhere alone until at least 14.

I have lived in England all my life. Apparently it's a lot more ridiculous than I ever realised.

Parents are there though. I was talking about a child ALONE big difference from what you and OP are saying. Cafes are more adult things not for kids to do alone it's bizarre and you don't know who is lurking around.

I have never seen a child of 9 or 12 sat without a parent. Never mind ordering at the counter FFS.

What's 'FFS' about an 11-12 yo ordering at the counter in a cafe? 'Hot chocolate and a slice of carrot cake, please.' What's so hard about that?

Pretty sure I was only 12-13 when I used to meet a friend on Saturday mornings. We'd go round the shops then to a cafe for elevenses or lunch, and had no problem ordering what we wanted.

@Realityloom Yes we are, but as I said you wouldn't know that as a random customer. You said you've never seen a 12 year old order at the counter without a parent, which I find borderline unbelievable.

The 10 year olds in our group are very welcome to sit with us outside, but they love the independence of having their little cafe catch up 'on their own'.

At the same age, albeit in the early 90s, I was out the door first thing with money for pop & half a bag of chips from the chippy at lunchtime and back home at dusk. No parent had any real concept of where any of us were in between times.

it's bizarre and you don't know who is lurking around.

You must frequent some strange cafes. Round here it tends to be mothers with small children in buggies, elderly ladies with their friends, students with laptops, groups of teenagers after school, or a person on their own with a coffee and Kindle (that would be me).

Tbh I'm a 90s kid too. Things were far far different back then. I'm not getting into that debate with you though.

No I don't. I'm a "normal mum" myself. The recent story about the nurse allegedly looked "normal" too. one might say your a tad naieve

@Realityloom Good, I wasn't trying to get into it.

Just a comparison to the 'independence' of ordering breakfast in a cafe that our 10 year olds are excited about now.

I wouldn't leave my 9YO in a cafe, at home for half an hour or so while I nip out or in the car while I go into a supermarket yes.
I would be uncomfortable about her being approached by a stranger in a cafe tbh.

My dds school.in England let y11 leave at lunchtime . Absolutely rubbish that it's inadequate safeguarding

mn is odd.
I do think some parents and kids who drive everywhere are very unaware of how much independance many 11 year olds have as soon as they travel to secondary.

my kids cycled to the station, got on a train, then walked up the hill to school. On the way home they often went into town, went to shops, cafes, even (shock horror) ordering things themselves and sitting and eating it.

Occasionally, as I said before, they would miss their train and then go (alone) to a local cafe and have a hot chocolate while waiting the 1 hour to the next train.

Of course an 11 year old is capable of all this. If you 11 isn't then as I parent I would be working to help them to become more independant.

Our local library is in our street, and on the way home from primary school. My 3 kids spent hours in there. They would come home and go bakc up, they would go up there on a Saturday morning. The library was fine from age 8 as long as they behaved. I think my middle dc was an unofficial library assistant on Saturday mornings, as she spent a couple of hours there and helped reshelve books etc.

I regularly checked with library that they were ok, and the response was - it is lovely to see kids who love books.

If you seriously think that your dc cannot go into a cafe on their own until age 15, please, start to teach them to be more independant.

I think I first left them alone when I was about 35.

@steppemum I agree with you about 11 year olds but I think 9 is quite different- they change an awful lot in two years and then continue to do so exponentially afterwards! It's important to encourage gradual independence though. Particularly with road safety.

I wouldn't be particularly worried that something was going to happen to a nine year old on their own in a cafe, it would just be that I might feel I was imposing on/worrying other people to leave them there, even if they were completely fine with it, as I know people would come up and ask if they are ok! If I knew the cafe owner or someone else there and could ask if they'd mind just keeping an eye on them that might be a different matter.

DD1 is young in the school year, and is 5'5" now aged 17, but when she went to secondary school, though very mature and sensible, she was very petite, about 4'10", a couple of years off puberty and only just turned 11. When she went into a shop with her friend after school the assistant asked if she was old enough to be out on her own!

I never suggested anyone should leave a 9 year old 🙄

I have said in a previous post that 9 is too young.
My comments were at the people who think they can't do any of this until 13/14/15/16.
As I said in my post.

It's unreasonable to leave your child taking up a table at a cafe on a Saturday morning for an hour. Also not up to the staff to babysit her.

There's a big difference with kids nipping out to the shops/walking to school/being somewhere with sensible friends. If rather leave my child at home if they were sensible enough and followed instructions.

At home, where she knows best and can be told not to answer the door or mess about with the oven, is much better than a cafe full of who knows who. Also, as others have said, cafes are businesses and not places to leave children while you go away for an hour.

I went to a RESTAURANT (😮😮😮) on my first ever trip into town with my friends!! (It was a family-friendly-style chain restaurant, but still.) That was after an hour's bus ride from our village. We were in year 7.

Too young to be left in a cafe. At home - maybe, depend son the child. I was about 8 when I was first left at home for an hour or two, but it was because I had chickenpox and my mum needed to go shopping. Also, if you left me on the sofa with a book, I wasn't going to go anywhere.

Not sure where you are, but I'm in Scotland too and at our primary P1-P3 are only released when the teacher sees a parent/carer outside in the playground ready to collect and if you want your P4 to walk home alone you need to let the school know it's ok for them to leave the premises.
P5-7 it's up to you.

Rural Scotland here. Our secondary school keeps the first years (mostly aged 12, our school intakes are different from England remember) on school premises for lunch for the first half of the year. Mostly to let them settle in and avoid the mad crush at the local burger stop. After that they and all the other years are allowed to leave for lunch if they wish. The school actually has a decent cheap canteen and various other facilities so I'd say over half do stay in for lunch regularly especially if they are doing a club at lunchtime as it's faster to get served than to go out.