At what age would you leave a child alone in a cafe for an hour?

[CoveredInCobwebs]

DD is nearly 9. Lately she has been asking to stay home sometimes when we are heading out as a family so she can read or draw. I'm not comfortable with that but I do feel sort of, but not entirely, comfortable with the idea of leaving her in an on-site cafe e.g. National Trust cafe while the rest of the family walks around one of the trails.
She could have either my or DH's phone - she wouldn't take the piss and would only use it if there was some sort of emergency. I don't think she is quite old enough yet but I was wondering what age people would think it was ok to do this?

My 10 year old goes to the shops and local cafes (Tesco's, Greggs) with her friends.

It's weird to think that in 90's as a 7 year old I was gallivanting around London with the instructions to come home when the street lights come on...

The rule I'm going by is when DD would be comfortable with knowing what to do and how to deal with certain situations like choosing and ordering by herself, fire alarms or strange people talking to her etc (in public obvs), probably about 11 or 12 but she is a shy and reserved person in general.

I remember walking into two when I was approx 13 and a man stopped me on the bridge into town, explained to me he was a pilot, staying at a local hotel and he was lonely and looking for company. I said I was meeting a friend and walked on. He was in hindsight i would say 40......so just because lots of us galivanted around on our own from 10ish onwards, doesn't mean it's safe.

town ...not two

I was molested by a ‘friendly’ man in a church at about your DD’s age or alittle younger. My mother was nearby and it was a historic building with other people sight-seeing there. He just seized his chance and left before anyone realised. It can happen in an instant, in public or ‘safe’ places.

Kids are molested in front of parents by family friends and relatives without the parents realising.
If you forbid everything on the grounds a kid was once molested in that situation then you need to lock your kids in the house until they are 18.

That is safe. You knew how to deal with this. Naive 18 year olds often do not.

Not at 8 almost 9. I would deem the cafe even more dangerous than being at home with everything locked and not answering the door. I wouldn't leave them at home with those rules til 11/12 in high school and it would depend on child's maturity too at that age. We've only just started doing that with 14yr old when we go shopping. In a cafe I wouldn't til 15/16yrs alone.

I agree

Some of the posters who have said they wouldn’t leave their kids alone til 14-16, can I ask why? when exactly do you plan on helping them learn the skills they’ll need to navigate the world?

My middle son is 14, 15 in Jan. He has suspected autism and ADHD (although the getting diagnosed situation is a while other thread) and as such he struggles with friendships. He’s been going alone into town to meet one, sometimes two, friends at a local cafe that they discovered themselves as one they loved the milkshakes at from 11. I’d have had no issue with him going by himself to go get a milkshake and sit there whilst he drank it at the same age.

My youngest son is 10, in year 6 and will turn 11 this (calendar) year. At the minute, I don’t let him go into town alone, but he is allowed to go and meet friends at a park 5 minutes away, nip to the local Co-op/corner shop on his own if he wants to go get some sweets or something. If he were to ask me if he could go to a cafe in town with friends, I would let him as long as they’ll stay together.

But we do live in a very small town - if we lived in a bigger/busier town or a city, I’d wait til secondary school age I think. Even now, I won’t be encouraging it til then. For me, some of the best times of secondary school were going into town with my mates after school!

As for leaving at home, my youngest is allowed to stay home with his older brothers for 15 minutes or so in the day, potentially up to an hour in an emergency. If his older brothers weren’t here, I’d trust him by himself if he were playing a game or something for you to half an hour max (longer than with his brothers because he and the middle brother sometimes get into big fights). I will add though, that his best friend lives 2 houses away and both me and his mum have said to each other that the others children are more than welcome to come round at any time if they need anything or are scared etc.

15/16?

My friends and I all had Saturday jobs at that age while still being at school. I actually worked in a cafe (early 00s so not in the dark ages!). Hope DCs get the chance to do the same.

Working somewhere is completely different though. A minor working in a cafe will be supervised by adults who know that they are doing so for a start.
And the OP is not about young people going into cafes in general. It's a very specific scenario - child doesn't want to participate in family activity but parents don't feel child is ready to leave at home alone so when is it appropriate to use the cafe as a kind of half way house? That's a bit different to a few friends dropping in somewhere for a drink on the way home for school etc.
I don't think it in intrinsically safer to be alone in a public place like a cafe than it is to be alone in your own home. So I don't think it's appropriate to leave a child in a cafe for the length of time that it would take to view a stately home or whatever. If they are responsible enough to take care of themselves in a public place then they're responsible enough to look after themselves at home. And if they aren't safe to be left at home, what is safer about the cafe? The argument that it would be for less time is the only one that I think holds any water. If the thinking is that it's because there are lots of people around a)that's not necessarily true and b)it is placing a certain degree of responsibility on the staff that they have neither asked for nor agreed to. Not to mention the fact that it would be likely to really annoy the staff and other customers, particularly at busy times.
An older teen would probably be much more capable of dealing alone with any issues than a younger child, but it would still be a bit cheeky to occupy a table for that length of time unless you ordered a lot to eat and drink. And a teen of that age would be fine, and probably happier, left at home anyway.

What you’re actually saying here OP, is that you feel comfortable leaving her in the café, safe in the knowledge that the staff would feel obligated to keep an eye on her- as most decent adults would do on seeing an unaccompanied child in public.
No, that is not ok. They are not a free babysitting service. Cafés have a fast turnaround on their tables & a child sitting for an hour is blocking valuable income for them. Either get her to walk with you, leave her with a friend/relative, or leave her at home for an hour.

Yeah I agree with you! My youngest DS will be 15 in December & is currently in town with his mates shopping. Is very independent and regularly goes out on his own to meet friends in local parks to play footy for hours at weekends or holidays. All his friends are similar. Most are nearly 6 foot despite being 14 still. We won't leave him overnight yet on his own (older DD is at Uni) mainly cos all his friends will pile round for a party 😉 and cos he might cook a pizza & burn the house down 🤣 but not cos I think a stranger might molest him in a local park or in our home 🙄 I'm glad he's confident & independent- people should give their kids more freedom imo. But not aged 9, that seems too young to leave alone in a public cafe - but mainly cos all the other café visitors will be worried about child seemingly left alone & not fair on café staff to parent a random girl.

If you build in downtime for your child and this isn’t enough for them then you build in more. Either you don’t go walking or it happens somewhere else in the week. Her choice to do two sports? Great. But it might also mean that she partakes in family walks too instead of having her down time then. If not then arrange for a childminder, babysitter, friend or relative to look after her for an hour or two. Leaving her in the house at 9 years old is pretty questionable. But a cafe? With strangers? And no one to take responsibility for her. FFS are you for real?!?! 😳She’s a child!

Downtime for a kid isn't sat in a cafe. If they're not at home they may as well be on the walk with you.

No I wouldn't leave her alone at home at that age and I certainly wouldn't leave her in a cafe.

I used to work in a cafe and a couple used to come in with their child, and the child always sat on a different table. I used to think it was quite cute - the little girl would order a hot chocolate and sit at her table drawing and reading. She clearly wanted to feel a bit more independent and have her own space but was also completely safe and if she needed anything, she could ask her parents.

This poor woman only asked our opinion on what age we thought her daughter could be left for an hour and the abuse is ridiculous, how many times is she going to hear the same thing? I do understand the question though as my sons hated going for walks with us in gardens, woods or parks much preferring to draw or play on their game boy. No, I wouldn't leave them at a cafe but would arrange to go somewhere they wanted to go and maybe leave them with friends or family for a short while to go somewhere like a park. That's what it means to be a parent, family days that they enjoy or find somewhere they can safely be for an hour or so and that wouldn't be a cafe for the reasons already given.

I was with my elder son when a couple of very young girls came up to me very upset. They were younger than 9 and had just been to the cinema together. The film finished but, apparently, their father didn't know what time he was supposed to collect them. I was absolutely appalled. My son lent them his phone (mine was at home) and we waited with them until their father turned up. I gave him a flea in his ear but all I got was to mind my own business. So, I did all the way home when I called the police with his registration number. He obviously thought that they would be safe in the cinema, probably but not guaranteed, but certainly not once they came out.

Thank you @Gemcat1 but it doesn't bother me at all :) There have been a few very sensible responses in between the ones that didn't even read my OP properly which have been really helpful!

DD is quite a different child to many 8 year olds, she absolutely does think that sitting in a cafe reading a book and drinking a hot chocolate is downtime. She is more than happy to go up to the counter and order for herself and pay.
Of course I wouldn't expect anyone to babysit her/keep an eye on her - hence my question about what age is appropriate to be left. Obviously I'm not going to suggest this to her for a couple more years but I think the PP saying teenagers are as ridiculous as many of them think I am :)