Butch women and public loos-not sure if correct place to post..

[Lesbianactually]

My partner is very masculine in appearance and is mistaken for a man all the time. This isn't usually a problem to her as she's aware of (and happy with) what she looks like.

However public loos (including in bars/restaurants etc) are a different story. It limits where we can go out, always has to be somewhere she feels comfortable, and these are few. Where she lives it isn't a very nice area and if I visit her she refuses to go out unless we're not drinking alcohol and/or will be very quick. First world problem I know, but I'd love for her to be able to leave the house for longer on occasion or for us to be able to share a few drinks and have some quality time. She lives with others so we don't get it at home.

She's better than she used to be. A few years ago she made herself quite poorly by holding the urge for up to 6 or 7 hours, & nowadays she won't do this, but largely through avoidance rather than management. She still panics if we go out, quite often. We live near a 'gay village' and she's fine there but last time we went with some friends, they wanted to go to a bar outside of it and she became visibly distressed as we were drinking alcohol and this means she needs the loo more often.

I've tried to help. The crux of the issue is she hates being confronted, told she's in the wrong loo. She's noticed if we're in a not so nice area, people are less tolerant/open minded and when they have confronted her they're quite nasty about it. In nicer areas she's less uncomfortable. In my local pub (we live quite far from one another) she's fine, and she has been confronted in there but she just responded that she was a woman and was there with her girlfriend and she'd show her ID if she wasn't believed. She wasn't upset by this at all but she has also in other places, had some people grab her and try to drag her out, get quite aggressive with her etc.

I know this is an anxiety-induced situation and perhaps does not need specific advice other than for her to get help for anxiety but just wondered if anyone else has experienced anything like this, anything that's good to say to people if she finds herself in this situation, any ways I can help?

She has a disabled key, from the time she made herself ill with this, but it isn't always practical to use that and it would be better for her to be happier to use the female loos generally. It's causing her unhappiness in life and limiting what she does/where she goes.

Thank you.

By not assuming all males are to be scared about I assume you have a husband etc do you go round thinking men are gonna attack you all the bloody time

Maybe look at the figures trans women are not causing the issues they are also victims of cis men and maybe not lumping them all into the same thing would help and then to get onto the original post maybe then some make looking women woukdnt be stopped going to the loo they need to tell these other gatekeepers to piss off

But how does looking at figures help me tell a bad male from a good male?
Say I have two males in feminine clothing in the ladies and one is Karen White if I didn't know who Karen White was how do I know which one is the dangerous male?

By not assuming all males are to be scared about I assume you have a husband etc do you go round thinking men are gonna attack you all the bloody time

I am not stupid enough to believe just because my DH is a decent man all men will be. It is basic risk assessment and safeguarding to accept then men pose a real threat to women and we must ensure we protect ourselves where possible.

You were reported for terf I believe, not by me BTW, so feel free to report me for handmaiden.

Transwomen aren't causing what issues?
Violence against women?
There's plenty of reports to show you are wrong.
We absolutely know it's still a minority, however as has already been said, we can't tell which are perfectly decent men and which are not.
It's very basic safeguarding.
Again, to repeat, it's not just safety either, fairness, privacy and dignity are also factors.
The vast majority of women do not want mixed sex toilets.

If all men are perfectly safe and not at risk to anyone then why don’t trans identifying men / Transwomen / gender non conforming men use the mens toilets?

Surely they work/ socialise with men all the time - they can’t go around thinking that all men will attack them. Please link to the crime figures showing that these men are frequently attacked in male safe spaces.

When I had very short hair and dressed more "masculine", this happened to me a lot. As soon as I opened my mouth and said "I am a woman" it was fine.

Because trans women are not men they feel like women so want to be in womens loos trans men do use mens loos it’s not a fucking hard thing to compute here and why shouldn’t they

Transwomen are men @Freespirit42. Ask Joe Biden.

it’s not a fucking hard thing to compute here and why shouldn’t they

It's a very hard thing to compute that Transwomen aren't men because they are. They cannot become women no matter how much they "feel like a woman" whatever that means.

Ask biology!

Because trans women are not men they feel like women so want to be in womens loos trans men do use mens loos it’s not a fucking hard thing to compute here and why shouldn’t they

Of course transwomen are men, they are adult males. Now I accept they prefer the term transwomen and I have no issue with that however they are not female therefore not women.

How does a male feel like a woman exactly?

Can an adult feel like a child and then join a primary school or a children's sports event?

I couldn't care less what they feel like when it comes to women's spaces.

So, when does the magic actually happen?

A man declares he now feels like a woman. No changes have taken place, just a thought in his head. No diagnosis, no hormones, no surgery, no clothes changes, nothing. Literally a thought.
Why does he now get to access all women's spaces? How is that fair?

You may not care about sharing with male people, but others do. You shouldn't give away rights that you don't care about.

Do you actually understand what you're advocating for? All areas will be mixed-sex. Including changing rooms, hospitals, refuges, and prisons. For god's sake, can't you see anything wrong with this?

You don't believe they're women any more than I do, you just lie about it, or at the very least keep quiet and go along with the crowd, whereas I don't.

The fact that males believe being a woman is just a feeling disgusts me tbh.

I wish it was just a feeling that way we could just unfeel our way out of our oppression, our female specific health issues and poor female health care, we could unfeel our way our of rape and murder, our economic oppression, our sexisim, femicide and unfeeling our way out of the misogyny constantly directed at us. Life would be so much better for women if we could just unfeel being women.

Well quite, those silly wimmin who just don't feel their way out of oppression in the middle east, for example.
That's it on a large scale.
On a tiny, relatively, scale, if only I'd thought to feel my way out of my rape/sexual assualts/being spoken to/treated as lesser.

It's either an excellent lesson, or actually scary.

Ah so its NOT about safety? It’s about some people doing what they want because of their inner feeling - is that right ?

So what about the women whose inner feelings and wishes are about using single sex facilities? Why do they not get to do what they want and feel like ? I don’t think that’s a fucking hard thing to compute either.

Why do some people ( Transwomen ) get to do what they want / like ? While other people ( girls, women ) not get what they want ?

Its a mystery indeed.

Oh wow you calling me trans then? God forbid that there are women that don’t think like you I take it Nicola sturgeon is also trans as I agree with everything she says we ain’t all bloody dinosaurs. I am 42 and most defo a woman not trans

Definitely. I feel like a woman, therefore I am. Not even trying to hide it 🙄

You want to talk about oppression it’s dam wrong that women are forced to wear hijabs etc but they are forced by conservative Islam men who hate gays to and funny enough trans women and trans men to. They would be on your side if they argument as many of you stand side by side by these oppressors

Wow would you like my address so you can see that I am a woman I am fucking insulted that there are so called feminists like you on these forums it wouldn’t surprise me if many of you so called women were men to as I find it’s men that seem to tell me as a woman what I should be thinking

I said this on another thread recently, but do you realise that if those women who are made to wear hijabs wanted to have single-sex space to get away from males, you would be the first one to call them a bigot?

Oh, and being offended when someone wonders if you are trans sounds kind of transphobic to me.

Huh, but you are an inclusive feminist which means you include men.

Also what has Nicola Sturgeon specifically got yo do with this thread?

Someone help me out here, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

I am not offended that people think I am trans I am offended that people think that women like me can’t have our opinions I get it all the time I am sick of women saying women should have voices but not my voices