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Ukraine Invasion: Part 32

1000 replies

MagicFox · 03/10/2022 14:47

Gosh, that last one filled up quick! Welcome to 32, all πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦

OP posts:
Thread gallery
84
Igotjelly · 03/10/2022 19:24

Shutting down old pages in my browser and noticed I still had this open. Can safely say it didn’t age well…

www.ft.com/content/97d15970-3c36-439d-aa38-7402f732efbc

Cant believe how much has changed since January 😭

MagicFox · 03/10/2022 19:25

Re the Poseidon stuff read below::

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1576999523192549376.html

OP posts:
Igotjelly · 03/10/2022 19:31

MagicFox · 03/10/2022 19:25

Re the Poseidon stuff read below::

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1576999523192549376.html

Thanks @MagicFox on it as ever πŸ‘πŸ˜Š

Fladdermus · 03/10/2022 19:32

The 'nuclear train' is only being reported in the British tabloids as far as I can see. So it probably is them scaremongering, like when they reported nukes being moved to the Finish border a while back, which turned out to be nothing of the sort.

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 03/10/2022 19:34

Why on earth would you agree to stay neutral on NATO after such a bloody, brutal invasion? No chance.

MagicFox · 03/10/2022 19:40

Cheers, Jelly! Also πŸ‘‡

BT is director of FRS.org (French defence think tank). Knows his geopolitical eggs.

Ukraine Invasion: Part 32
OP posts:
mids2019 · 03/10/2022 19:40

@lovely
@Igotjelly

Interesting piece and I am sure a lot of thought has gone into this.

One thing that concerns me if there was a nuclear strike in Ukraine is the effect on world markets. Would a nuclear detonation cause a slide in share value for instance?.Could panic be induced in a large Western city with fear possibly making a few anxious people move out? (In case of escalation)?

I wonder what the press would do in an instance of a tactical strike. Presumably there would be worldwide footage and worldwide reaction from citizens. Would Biden have to explain to the world why there wasn't a nuclear reply?

ScrollingLeaves · 03/10/2022 19:56

Fladdermus Β· Today 19:20

ScrollingLeaves Β· Today 19:16

”Elon Musk suggests Ukraine should be "neutral" in Russia's war in Ukraine and in an approach to peace, and says Crimea is "formally part of Russia" (US/other allies recognize Crimea is Ukrainian)”

What on earth is he talking about? How can an invaded, brutally attacked country be neutral?

He means that Ukraine agrees to be neutral instead of pursuing NATO membership

Thank you for explaining what he meant.

Zelensky withdrew the claims to join NATO
near the start of the war. He only brought it back after Russia’s illegal, false referendum.

notimagain · 03/10/2022 20:13

I honestly think Musk gets given too much airtime...he's undeniably done some good works with regard to Ukraine, hats off to him for that, but just occasionally he needs, dare I say it, to STFU.....

@mids2019

I wonder what the press would do in an instance of a tactical strike. Presumably there would be worldwide footage and worldwide reaction from citizens. Would Biden have to explain to the world why there wasn't a nuclear reply?

I'm not sure why he'd have to explai...I'm not sure many people (well outside those who write for the tabloids) are assuming or trying to paint a picture that the immediate NATO/US response would be nuclear.

The likely best guess western reply is the very substantial use of conventional force against any and all Russian targets on Ukraine territory.

Tuba437 · 03/10/2022 20:22

Nuclear drills were planned for this Autumn according to Lavrov back in 2019, so far too easy for Putin to also use it as a show to the west right now.

Greenshake · 03/10/2022 20:31

Thank you for new thread πŸ™‚

miceonabranch · 03/10/2022 20:37

Possible US responses.

RedBea · 03/10/2022 20:47

.

autumn1610 · 03/10/2022 20:57

Tho so makes me happy just look at their faces πŸ₯²

Ukraine Invasion: Part 32
Ukraine Invasion: Part 32
Mb76 · 03/10/2022 21:00

Thanks for the new thread @MagicFox

shreddednips · 03/10/2022 21:04

Igotjelly · 03/10/2022 18:08

www.thesun.co.uk/news/19985372/footage-putin-elite-nuclear-forces-signal-to-west/amp/

Not usually one for the Sun but this is unusually measured. Suggests, amongst other things, that Oct is generally a busy month for exercises of the strategic military units and that the train may well be part of that.

I do think of it was a significant move, meant to be symbolic, we would have heard more about it in the form of Kremlin propaganda. what use is weaponising fear when no one knows you’re doing it?

I'm not sure what to make of this. Given that the US presumably would know if Russia was making serious preparations for a nuclear strike...I would have thought-given their previous strategy of making intelligence public- that they would be widely and loudly publicising this if they thought there was a genuine risk of something imminent in the hopes that China might apply pressure to Putin to desist. I hope!

Ijsbear · 03/10/2022 21:26

report from the not-always-reliable Fuat that "Russians left Dudchany, Kherson province. ZSU entered the village."

Peaches212 · 03/10/2022 21:26

Sorry I've not read through all the other threads. However, has anyone addressed the issue of Nordstream and the fact that America has had its eye fixed on Europe to sell them their oil and gas for years? Condoleezza Rice herself said it 10 years ago on video, how they don't like Russia having the European markets for oil and gas and that they need to be stopped.

The way I understand it, Ukraine is a proxy war for America and Russia. Both sides are crazy, neither side much cares for who is caught in the middle. We are not really America's "friends" or have a "special relationship", unless you take special as meaning "abusive". America has an incentive to continue the war because it allows money to flow into the arms companies and weakens Russia, thereby allowing it to assert its dominance ever more over the world in a time when its power is waning.

Russia/Putin is probably nuts but there is actual evidence out there which shows how he has tried to be friends with America over the years but has been ridiculed, lied to and humiliated by them. I do believe that although Putin was wrong to invade, that the west pushed very hard to help him in that direction.

So although I won't take sides, I don't like the way that America treats other countries around the world. It is in fact proving awful for us all on so many levels. I also don't like the massive wall of propaganda that we are subject to in the UK, and from the sounds of it, across Europe. This strict anti-russian, pro-western narrative which seeks to arrest our critical thinking.

We are all paying the price for these catastrophic decisions. Obviously some people more than others. I'm so angry about it. We are all being played for fools.

Igotjelly · 03/10/2022 21:31

Peaches212 · 03/10/2022 21:26

Sorry I've not read through all the other threads. However, has anyone addressed the issue of Nordstream and the fact that America has had its eye fixed on Europe to sell them their oil and gas for years? Condoleezza Rice herself said it 10 years ago on video, how they don't like Russia having the European markets for oil and gas and that they need to be stopped.

The way I understand it, Ukraine is a proxy war for America and Russia. Both sides are crazy, neither side much cares for who is caught in the middle. We are not really America's "friends" or have a "special relationship", unless you take special as meaning "abusive". America has an incentive to continue the war because it allows money to flow into the arms companies and weakens Russia, thereby allowing it to assert its dominance ever more over the world in a time when its power is waning.

Russia/Putin is probably nuts but there is actual evidence out there which shows how he has tried to be friends with America over the years but has been ridiculed, lied to and humiliated by them. I do believe that although Putin was wrong to invade, that the west pushed very hard to help him in that direction.

So although I won't take sides, I don't like the way that America treats other countries around the world. It is in fact proving awful for us all on so many levels. I also don't like the massive wall of propaganda that we are subject to in the UK, and from the sounds of it, across Europe. This strict anti-russian, pro-western narrative which seeks to arrest our critical thinking.

We are all paying the price for these catastrophic decisions. Obviously some people more than others. I'm so angry about it. We are all being played for fools.

Oooh another one! It’s been a while.

Greenshake · 03/10/2022 21:34

@Peaches212 your post is rather light on some inconvenient truths, isn’t it?

Igotjelly · 03/10/2022 21:34

Poor Pootin being ridiculed and lied to by America. Maybe you have a point, the only sensible response is to kill innocent Ukrainians. I can’t believe I didn’t see it before now. Thanks @Peaches212

Fladdermus · 03/10/2022 21:42

Poor little Putin just wanted to be friends but we were mean to him so he invaded a sovereign nation and started raping, torturing and murdering innocent men, women and children instead.

LoveLarry · 03/10/2022 21:46

Peaches212 · 03/10/2022 21:26

Sorry I've not read through all the other threads. However, has anyone addressed the issue of Nordstream and the fact that America has had its eye fixed on Europe to sell them their oil and gas for years? Condoleezza Rice herself said it 10 years ago on video, how they don't like Russia having the European markets for oil and gas and that they need to be stopped.

The way I understand it, Ukraine is a proxy war for America and Russia. Both sides are crazy, neither side much cares for who is caught in the middle. We are not really America's "friends" or have a "special relationship", unless you take special as meaning "abusive". America has an incentive to continue the war because it allows money to flow into the arms companies and weakens Russia, thereby allowing it to assert its dominance ever more over the world in a time when its power is waning.

Russia/Putin is probably nuts but there is actual evidence out there which shows how he has tried to be friends with America over the years but has been ridiculed, lied to and humiliated by them. I do believe that although Putin was wrong to invade, that the west pushed very hard to help him in that direction.

So although I won't take sides, I don't like the way that America treats other countries around the world. It is in fact proving awful for us all on so many levels. I also don't like the massive wall of propaganda that we are subject to in the UK, and from the sounds of it, across Europe. This strict anti-russian, pro-western narrative which seeks to arrest our critical thinking.

We are all paying the price for these catastrophic decisions. Obviously some people more than others. I'm so angry about it. We are all being played for fools.

So much to pick apart with this but really, it's hardly worth the bother

What a load of complete, unadulterated shite.

Welcome to MN.

Peaches212 · 03/10/2022 21:58

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