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Ukraine Invasion: Part 32

1000 replies

MagicFox · 03/10/2022 14:47

Gosh, that last one filled up quick! Welcome to 32, all 🇺🇦

OP posts:
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84
minsmum · 11/10/2022 16:06

Sorry meant to caption the above, Will we soon see a destroyed Russian tank outside the Russian embassy in Berlin

L1ttledrummergirl · 11/10/2022 16:11

Hancox432 · 11/10/2022 15:05

Oh absolutely I don't think we should be giving into Russia what so ever. However if we can have a diplomatic solution that at the very minimum gets Ukraine back to pre 2014 levels with further security garuntees, I at least think it should be explored. Thing is we can't trust Putin now and we can't trust him in the future when he's not in Ukraine. But I'd much rather be not trusting him while he's not bombing the shit out of Ukraine.

I think that from what I understand of the Ukrainians character and courage, they want Putin and Russia back behind the original border. Frankly I don't blame them and would hope that the British government supports them to achieve what they want for their country.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/10/2022 16:42

The trouble is that Putin has now shown that, no matter what he says, as long as he has Crimea he can use it as a jumping off point to invade so the south of the country is never going to be safe.
That’s why Zaluzhnyi said something like ‘we don’t have the right to hand the war on to our children.’ Ukraine might never have a better chance to regain Crimea. Allowing Russia to retain it is less conscionable now than it was before.

Though tbh I agree it’s all a moot point anyway because Russia wouldn’t agree to the loss of the Donbas.

Hancox432 · 11/10/2022 16:51

Zelenskey again speaking about peace talks. Won't do them directly with Putin (who has no future) but a new leader of Russia. Or under a configuration where Putin can't use terror to get what he wants?

Not sure what he means by the second part to be honest.

minsmum · 11/10/2022 17:00

mobile.twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1579847745799847936 Germany has provided the Iris-T to Ukraine supposed to be the best in the world

minsmum · 11/10/2022 17:00

Air defence system

Ijsbear · 11/10/2022 17:03

Hah! :)

expandabandband · 11/10/2022 17:07

So soldiers mobilised just a couple of weeks ago are already being sent to the front by Russia...

"First deaths being reported among Russians who were mobilized in late September and sent to the front in Ukraine just days later. You can see why some consider they’re being sent as cannon fodder."

twitter.com/Andrew__Roth/status/1579770763259019264

prettybird · 11/10/2022 17:08

With regard to the apparent troupe build up in Belarus of both Belarusian and Russian forces, I wonder if the purpose is to try to get Ukraine to divert its limited resources away from their successful counter-attacks in the South and East, to defend the border with Belorussian rather than any serious intent to invade Hmm

Lukashenko has shown an ability to talk big but not risk his own forces (he needs them to stay in power Wink)

I think/hope the Ukrainian military strategists are too astute to be taken in or to be provoked into splitting their forces.

NB: I am no strategist and have no military expertise whatsoever.

minsmum · 11/10/2022 17:18

seemingly that German system was for Egypt but they stood aside for it to be delivered to Ukraine instead and there are another two systems being built which will be delivered directly. Well done Egypt

Fladdermus · 11/10/2022 17:20

Yes, well done Egypt. I'm in tears. Again.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/10/2022 17:44

Fladdermus · 11/10/2022 17:20

Yes, well done Egypt. I'm in tears. Again.

Yes, there will be Ukrainian children who will get to grow up because of that decision.

minsmum · 11/10/2022 17:52

mobile.twitter.com/cspan/status/1579559034151116806 speech from the Ukrainian ambassador to the United nations, well part of one

Igotjelly · 11/10/2022 18:01

So turns out Musk did indeed speak directly to Putin ahead of putting his ‘peace plan’ on Twitter. Some reports that he’s concerned about personal risk (from cyber/towards his satellites etc.)

ScrollingLeaves · 11/10/2022 18:02

minsmum · Today 17:00
mobile.twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1579847745799847936 Germany has provided the Iris-T to Ukraine supposed to be the best in the world

What good news, and how heartening that, as you later explained, Egypt waived their first place in the queue for this in favour of Ukraine.

prettybird · Today 17:08
With regard to the apparent troupe build up in Belarus of both Belarusian and Russian forces, I wonder if the purpose is to try to get Ukraine to divert its limited resources away from their successful counter-attacks in the South and East, to defend the border with Belorussian rather than any serious intent to invade Hmm

Lukashenko has shown an ability to talk big but not risk his own forces (he needs them to stay in power Wink)

I think/hope the Ukrainian military strategists are too astute to be taken in or to be provoked into splitting their forces.

NB: I am no strategist and have no military expertise whatsoever.

Nor am I, but what you say makes sense.

On the other hand do you think there is any chance that the Russians do now have a large enough force to fight on both fronts at once, and the will to do so?

Igotjelly · 11/10/2022 18:04

ScrollingLeaves · 11/10/2022 18:02

minsmum · Today 17:00
mobile.twitter.com/IuliiaMendel/status/1579847745799847936 Germany has provided the Iris-T to Ukraine supposed to be the best in the world

What good news, and how heartening that, as you later explained, Egypt waived their first place in the queue for this in favour of Ukraine.

prettybird · Today 17:08
With regard to the apparent troupe build up in Belarus of both Belarusian and Russian forces, I wonder if the purpose is to try to get Ukraine to divert its limited resources away from their successful counter-attacks in the South and East, to defend the border with Belorussian rather than any serious intent to invade Hmm

Lukashenko has shown an ability to talk big but not risk his own forces (he needs them to stay in power Wink)

I think/hope the Ukrainian military strategists are too astute to be taken in or to be provoked into splitting their forces.

NB: I am no strategist and have no military expertise whatsoever.

Nor am I, but what you say makes sense.

On the other hand do you think there is any chance that the Russians do now have a large enough force to fight on both fronts at once, and the will to do so?

On your point about being able to fight on 2 fronts, I would say almost certainly not. They can barely fight on the one front they have. They may have numbers of troops on paper but that doesn’t translate into ability to wage war.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 11/10/2022 18:15

Igotjelly · 11/10/2022 18:04

On your point about being able to fight on 2 fronts, I would say almost certainly not. They can barely fight on the one front they have. They may have numbers of troops on paper but that doesn’t translate into ability to wage war.

I suppose what we can hope for is that it will be a damaging overstretch for Russia due to its leader’s unrealistic ideas about his forces and equipment.

I am still worried about what is to come though.

Fladdermus · 11/10/2022 18:55

I thought that the reason Belarus hadn't joined Russia in the invasion was because the Belarusian troops refused to go. Has that changed or is he just string Putin along?

Hancox432 · 11/10/2022 19:35

The Belarus troops are all that stand between Lucachenko and being over thrown. Not a chance in hell he will let them into a war zone that isn't even his war.

Underthesofa · 11/10/2022 19:43

From Kyiv Independent

Ukraine does not plan military actions against Belarus, President Volodymyr Zelensky said during an extraordinary G7 summit led by German Chancellor Olaf Scholz.

"To completely remove this provocation, to remove these narratives by (Belarus dictator Alexander) Lukashenko, to remove even the assumption of any alleged threat from us, we offer our solution," said Zelensky.

"A mission of international observers may be stationed on the border of Ukraine and Belarus to monitor the security situation," Zelensky said during a conference gathered as a response to Russia's widespread bombardment of Ukraine on Oct. 10.

Zelensky said that Ukrainian authorities have a "peace formula" that includes an air shield, territorial integrity protection, punishment of Russia, and a "Kyiv Security Compact project," which the president didn't describe in detail.

Underthesofa · 11/10/2022 19:44

Sorry posted to soon - if there were international observers, then that would free up Ukrainian Army? Not that Belarus would agree to it.

TargusEasting2 · 11/10/2022 19:48

He and the people around him are smart, aren't they. They pull these blinders out from time to time.

wonderfullife123 · 11/10/2022 20:21

Igotjelly · 11/10/2022 18:01

So turns out Musk did indeed speak directly to Putin ahead of putting his ‘peace plan’ on Twitter. Some reports that he’s concerned about personal risk (from cyber/towards his satellites etc.)

Musk has denied this now. @Igotjelly

MMBaranova · 11/10/2022 20:24

Igotjelly · and off ramps

My musings were not in any way critical of you, just pondering the whole 'off ramp' thing which along with nuclear worries seem to be part of the general discourse out there.

Before I went away (am still in Spain, it's Ireland next, and then back to London to see how well Mini-Nova thrives without me) I had a 'moment' with a friend's partner. He's a StopTheWarEr and possibly part of a hereditary sect that thinks Lenin was on the right path before the New Economic Policy. Generally pleasant and helpful man, but you can press a button when discussing a conflict and he'll go into Just Stop The War mode. Discussing the Russian invasion, he reached StopTheWar and I said 'yes'. "So you agree with me?". 'Yes. Putin pull the troops out, stand down and get a plane to The Hague'. I backed away before he malfunctioned.

How the war plays out in the medium term is hard to tell. Until at least the weather shifts I think we are going to see continued Ukrainian advances, while we see what Surovikin can do. I doubt he can do much on the ground, although his appointment might give a morale boost and ensure greater coordination between regular forces, Chechens and Wagnerites. His supply lines are compromised, and the flow of the poorly trained, ill-equipped, unfit and often unsuitable newly mobilised cannon fodder is not going to make much of a difference. He'll no doubt build on his reputation from Syria and continue to target civilians and infrastructure.

I don't see much fatigue from NATO allies. It might develop. The emergency G7 meeting today, according to the New York Times, 'pledged “undeterred and steadfast” financial and military support for Ukraine, and emphasized “severe consequences” for Russia if it were to use chemical, biological or nuclear weapons'.

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