DD1 has just moved back into the family home and is causing chaos

[drivinmecrazy]

DD1 (21) graduated in June. she had a job in her university town which means she has only recently returned home.
She came home about three weeks ago. I left a few days later for six weeks and am now in Spain.
That left DD1, DD2 (17) and DH.
DD1 then came out to stay with me for ten days as a way to reconnect after three years away.
She's incredibly independent, opinionated and selfish. TBH I was, sadly, relieved when she went back home.
Since then I've had DD2 constantly messaging me about her, often in tears about what her sister has said to her.
DH, for all his tough talk when DD1 not there, just gets sucked into her side every bloody time.
It's got to the point that I cannot have a private conversation with him without DD1 being present.
This evening o have resorted to asking DD2 to write him a note to put on his pillow asking him to phone me from work tomorrow to discuss things.
I just don't know what to do and am dreading going home in a few weeks if it's still a war zone at home.
Honestly DD1 manipulates him so much that he can't see that DD2 is really struggling.
We all had a talk a few weeks ago about how it will be a big adjustment for us all living together again, and acknowledged that it would be tough on all of us especially DD1, who really doesn't want to be living back at home in an ideal world.
I'm feeling a mixture of frustration at all of them not being able to communicate and relief I'm not there!

This.

I was DD2. Eldest stamped her foot and parents did whatever she wanted. In the end they brought her a car, house etc and it wasn’t enough. She is a vile person. No empathy. Her child exists as an extension of herself and she monitors him 24/7.

I would video call DH first without her around.

DD2 is being abused. DH is enabling it.

dd1 needs to have a family meeting on zoom with yourself and DH with both of you on the same page

point out the abuse

but if there is any more she has 24 hours to get out

set house rules especially for dd2 to understand she will be protected . Tell dd1 she has 8 weeks to get a house share that is non negotiable

TBH I think we're all a bit fearful of DD1

This is bonkers. Go home and sort it out.

Tell her that her bullying is unacceptable and that she needs to leave and have a major attitude adjustment. Does she need her with her MH?

This is such an interesting and sad thread.

I have 2 dd and eldest has a huge tendency to be self-centred and sometimes obnoxious and inconsiderate with her younger sister (and occasionally us). I consider myself a strong parent, I don't take an BS and deal with bad behaviour always and straight away (cutting slack when appropriate). But it is so disheartening to have to reprimand older dd so often so that she feels she is spoiling things and feels bad. She is her mid teens and hormonal, which amplifies the situation. I am relatively wise to family dynamics (though it's hardest recognising your own) and I'm trying to be supportive on dd2 (as well as dd1).

To all those saying to the OP deal with it or she should have dealt with it earlier, what can you do with a child who has such selfish tendencies? Also to those suggesting BPD, os to not true that many women are wrongly diagnosed as this when in reality they are ASD?

OP, I will join those saying, come back to the UK, even if for a week or weekend. Alternatively, why can't you dd1 join you in Spain, or better still, stay with your mum, support her grandmother and you go back home to support dd2? Would this be an option and help dd1 grow up and take some real life responsibility?

I remember returning home after university and travelling. It was awful. I would come and go until I moved out with my partner at 27.

i sympathise with her on this note in that she has grown up a lot the last few years, undoubtedly become more independent, has a boyfriend that she cannot be alone with which is hard. You feel so grown up yet seem to be going backwards by moving back to your parents.

HOWEVER, she should not be controlling your home. It’s sad that you are scared of your own daughter.

You mention MH issues but what you may surprisingly find is that what she needs and is lacking is stability. Set your boundaries, be firm yet understanding and explain your reasonings for your boundaries. Be calm and emphasise with her but remain firm. Make sure your husband follows and does not weaken.

She shouldn’t be allowed to behave this way or she will struggle in the real world. At 21 we think we know it all but really are just tip toeing into adulthood and have so much to learn.

1. Your DD is an adult, not a child.
2. Both of your inability to see her as an adult is adding to the problem.
3. Your husband does not want to deal with DD so he caves. Obviously DH has confrontational issues that need to be dealt with as well.
4. Younger D needs to learn to stand up for herself and get a thicker skin because her DS is a prat.
5. Your soft stepping around DD has encouraged propagating the situation. Stop treating her with kid gloves. She's not made of glass.
6. Stop letting her get away with these inappropriate actions. Talk to her and give consequences. And follow through.
7. DD needs immediate help so a visit or two to the Emergency Room for NH and needed meds.

She sounds very much like my friend’s daughter, so I completely understand how difficult setting those boundaries is. My friend is constantly held hostage by her DD’s past MH. It’s now affected her son too, because her DD’s attitudes are really selfish.

Her DD was diagnosed with autism quite late, and also has ptsd, due to her father leaving suddenly, and her friend taking her own life.

The DD accuses everyone of triggering her with the things they do, eat, if they exercise. She holds them all to ransom with it. 😔

I haven't read all the replies, but you asked if anyone had a child with MH issues in the same boat.

Yes, my. Dd is 20 and just returned after being away for a year. Quite bad history of MH issues to the point of hospitalization.

Obviously she has found herself and her ways of doing things while away, and also her freedom. And yes imo it's made her quite selfish as she's just needed to think of herself day to day.

We have had a few showdowns since she got back, as I said to her this shop still sails the same and if she wishes to stay home now, she needs to adjust back to how things are here. We are certainly not going to pander to her new way of life. So the discussion went that she is welcome to stay (which I would love tbh) but that I won't tolerate the level of selfishness that she has displayed.

Am I worried she will self harm because of a bit of a heated discussion? No, because she's had years of therapy to cope in normal day to day life. There will be disagreements at home, uni, work and whereever life takes her, and those people are not going to excuse bad behaviour, because she had issues in the past.

I am sorry but I too am a mother of a dd with a history and that does not give her a free pass to behave badly.

We are getting there now, I refer to at as respect for each other. I get that she is an adult now and doesn't want mums approval or permission for everything, but in the same breathe she knows how the house runs.so is adjusting back again. She doesn't seem that keen to make a break and clear off quite yet, so it can't be that awful here.

You sound like you adore your dd2 and not much your dd1.i think she'd feel this.i certainly have the whole way through your posts.
I see them both winding eacother up too.especially if dd1 knows she's your favourite.
You've beamed over dd2.everytime you've said anything about dd1 it's come with a shit sandwich.
She has obviously been severely ill.to go on to uni and be on her own I think is bloody marvelous.especually coping with ptsd.
Maybe she is needing more help now.resorting to the need of a child like behaviours is often a need to feel safe.
We also need to stop calling people with mental illness manipulative because the reasons and background for their behaviour is very very different and manipulative puts a really terrible stigma and spin on those suffering when the behaviour are totally different and stem from different place.

You can also make sure your there for her and explain your reaction to her shitty behaviour is just that and very sepetate to how you feel about her as a person.
Yes,it's a tricky thing but with Mental illness you do often have to word and place things differently to separate the issues from them as how they feel about themselves is the illness.

Could you your 2 daughters sit together over a video call.together.
Maybe a pizza each and just talk over a meal.
Noones fighting for dad's attention.nor mum. Your just together.let each other see each other as people again.

You need to go home and sort it out… even if you only fly home for a couple of days and go back again.

Or fly DD2 out to you in the next half term

EMDR is held up as the gold standard, however it runs the risk of being retraumatising/making things worse and should be avoided in cases of multiple traumatic events. I certainly wouldn’t pay for it privately unless a Psychiatrist has done the CPTSD assessment and recommended it.

The opinions of counsellors mean zero in the world of actual Psychiatry.

You need to go further back than those events and be brutally honest with yourself, it is possible to have both a PD and PTSD. I’m not seeing the behaviour of someone with CPTSD from what you’ve said, though.

And people with any mental illness can be manipulative as fuck, and ruin lives around them. Fact. It is not a get out of jail free card.

I think you need to fly DD1 back out to you in Spain tbh. You hated having to deal with her there and you are the parent so that will give you an idea how bad things really are for DD2 not matter how much of an understanding star she is. You cant come home to help her so if at all possible you need to take DD1 out of the home and over to you.
Is there anyway DD2 couldnt stop listening to DD1? At 17 she knows you are not going to get rid of her favourite cat and her sister is trying to get a rise out of her

If I stopped claiming UC, my income would drop by £1500 a month, and with 3 children, one of whom is classed as Severely Disabled, the extortionate amount of rent that private landlords charge,no, I cannot live off my wage alone.

11K for decades? When? The 60/70/80s? For one person? Not comparable at all.

Fortunately I did find somewhere in the nick of time via a friend of a friend.

OP I have two dc 23/19.
My son was a nightmare from 18. He chose to study at a local uni and commuted. He was progressively rude, bullying and controlling. His targets were me and his sister. His sister has SEMH which effected her schooling. He was trying to co parent her as he felt she was letting the family down. He was a golden child to this point. I put a stop to his behaviour and asked him to leave as soon as he graduated. I think he had a massive reaction to his grandfather's death when he was 18. My father had been his Manny. They were inseparable.
I couldn't live with him whilst he was bullying everyone. I got to the stage where if my dh hadn't backed me up I was leaving with dd.
Our son moved out and he has returned to the loving son he was.
Our daughter is much improved but has occasional episodes of poor mh. She is never abusive and no longer self harms. I never allowed her to abuse me (my mother did a good job of that). Please don't allow her to bully you younger DD. It will have lasting consequences. Her super intelligence could be a sign of ASD.
If she has lived away for uni you may want to encourage her to get a house share. Living with egg shells is hell.

Yes, you’re right. It’s something the government really need to address.

I agree.

Dd1 is only 21, has PTSD. The solution given here is to kick her out. While I agree dd2 must be protected, the solution should be aiming towards both are suffering.
Op, how can your DH be manipulated by dd1, when she is a known manipulator at home? Also why you only want to focus on now and here when dd1 has issues simmering over years and when Dd1 was given wrong kind of therapy for her condition?

@drivinmecrazy ….If you want to learn more about Borderline Personality Disorder please DM me. I’m part of a supportive international community of carers and family for people with BPD. We aim to educate, support and coach loved ones. Your loved one doesn’t have to have a diagnosis, just be an emotionally sensitive person. History of self harm and instability.
I don’t come on mumsnet or check messaging that often but get in touch if you want. Our community is very supportive. You will not encounter any of the language or accusation that I’ve sadly read on this thread. Unfortunately with MH, many people don’t understand what they don’t understand.

@SilverLiningPlaybook @HardLanding There are always flats to rent in my experience that will take DSS. They just aren't the best or in the best block/location. Also people can rent through some landlords directly, and they have less stringent checks on income etc. So you can just put on the form where you 'work.' Maybe if someone insists on trying to live in a posh town or area of a town with high rent then it'll be this stringent.

I've never heard of landlords not wanting to rent to single people. If anything they sometimes preferred single people, for instance if there are several flats in a house and having more people than a certain number would effect their HMO status and rules about what they have to do.

OP, I will join those saying, come back to the UK, even if for a week or weekend. Alternatively, why can't you dd1 join you in Spain, or better still, stay with your mum, support her grandmother and you go back home to support dd2? Would this be an option and help dd1 grow up and take some real life responsibility?

I would NOT recommend leaving an elderly frail person alone in the care of someone at present so untrustworthy as the elder dd. Even if she didn't bully her, she might neglect her whenever something came up of greater interest to herself.

@drivinmecrazy

I get that you’re scared but really at 21 it shouldn’t come to actually kicking her out, she should be able to stick to the boundaries and behave herself.
You are doing her and anyone that comes in her firing line absolutely no favours by pussy footing around her like this, especially your younger daughter. It’s just not fair on either of them you have to make it clear that she can’t do this.

loll @ buy him a set of balls in duty free 😆

I totally agree with you

I was living in a rough area of my City Centre anyway (Deprivation Index Score 1) and looked in 12 areas, 9 of them a 1, the rest a 2. So I sure as shit wasn’t looking for just “nice” areas. I even tried looking for 2 bed houses but was told as I have 3DC it wasn’t “allowed”.

The irony of your statement is that where I am now - in another county and doing a 90 min commute via buses - IS a very naice area with a DIS of 8. It’s quite the difference and not a place I ever thought I’d be living.

I’m glad you’ve never come across it, but in the decade since having the nerve to divorce my abuser, I’ve had this problem. I managed to get 3 viewings in 10 months. 2 via OpenRent, 1 via an EA.

“Working couples only” “Minimum income 40K not including any benefits” “Regardless of credit score or income, home owning Guarantor earning minimum of 40k required” - my favourite one contained all three, for a rundown, grotty 3 bed terrace in a terrible area for £650 a month.

I’ll happily forward my entire inbox (I set up an email address specifically for this) of discriminatory, unethical, illegal shit they all said to me.

There is no way to challenge it either. The laws are useless unless the people they’re meant to protect can invoke them and wipe the floor with people breaking them.

I even got as far as signing a tenancy agreement (that had already been signed by the LL) then had the EA pull the rug from under me by claiming the LL hadn’t realised I was the only adult moving in.

I’ve got an ongoing Ombudsman complaint against them for that.

If she’s incredibly independent why is she living at home?