DD1 has just moved back into the family home and is causing chaos

[drivinmecrazy]

DD1 (21) graduated in June. she had a job in her university town which means she has only recently returned home.
She came home about three weeks ago. I left a few days later for six weeks and am now in Spain.
That left DD1, DD2 (17) and DH.
DD1 then came out to stay with me for ten days as a way to reconnect after three years away.
She's incredibly independent, opinionated and selfish. TBH I was, sadly, relieved when she went back home.
Since then I've had DD2 constantly messaging me about her, often in tears about what her sister has said to her.
DH, for all his tough talk when DD1 not there, just gets sucked into her side every bloody time.
It's got to the point that I cannot have a private conversation with him without DD1 being present.
This evening o have resorted to asking DD2 to write him a note to put on his pillow asking him to phone me from work tomorrow to discuss things.
I just don't know what to do and am dreading going home in a few weeks if it's still a war zone at home.
Honestly DD1 manipulates him so much that he can't see that DD2 is really struggling.
We all had a talk a few weeks ago about how it will be a big adjustment for us all living together again, and acknowledged that it would be tough on all of us especially DD1, who really doesn't want to be living back at home in an ideal world.
I'm feeling a mixture of frustration at all of them not being able to communicate and relief I'm not there!

Boundaries PP? She’s 21. Ship has sailed. Now there is a nightmare adult who thinks telling bareface lies to her younger sister, including ones that will be emotionally distressing, alongside reading her Dads messages. Hoo boy.

Sometimes we find ourselves in a situation that we don't know how to handle.
I'm ashamed to admit it but I am afraid of my DD. Not physically.
She is amazing in so many ways. She's super intelligent, beautiful and capable. But she lacks empathy completely. Always has done since she was a small child.
But we are where we are.

Options seem to be to confront her and live with the consequences.
But that's what scares me, how those consequences might play out.
If she starts deteriorating with her MH.

That's what scares me the most I think. Having gone through some really dark times.

I guess we are hostages to her, DH most of all 😢

Why on Earth does your DD1 think she has the right to look at your DH's phone? Boundaries! Why does your DD1 think she has the right to be involved in private conversations between you and your DH? Boundaries!

Is your DH a little bit dim, in that he can be so easily manipulated by a 21 year old? Or is he just very weak? And why does your DD2 get so upset and hostile because she wasn't included in a supposed conversation about a dog?

Frankly, you all sound very hard work and take yourselves far too seriously.

To a pp who suggested they would go home if DD2 was so upset, she understands why I need to be here and she's ok with that.

Usually she'd come out for a few weekends but she's in her final year of A levels so can't take time off.

If I thought she was really not coping of course I would drop everything here. But she's a star, she knows I have to be here and is fine with that.

She knows I'm always there for her and she can and does speak to me anytime

Crikey. In true MN form I'm thankful for all of the supportive posts 😂
I'm interested to know if previous posters have had experience of a returning adult child and would like to share their words of wisdom how and why it worked out so well for them.

I'm sure for the majority it would be a quite seemless re-blending of a family and I'm happy that this is most peoples experience.

Unfortunately it hasn't been for us. Maybe we need to give it a bit more time

you need to tell your DD1, that she is bullying her little sister. That it is unacceptable & she wasn't subjected to a bitch older sister, so to back off.
What she should be doing now is looking for a job, (any job, to gap fill if necessary, so that she is occupied & she can pay for her board & lodging
Once she has a salary she can move out & live independently, as clearly living in harmony with her family is not working
There will be no dog & you are keeping the cats,
She is not in charge in Your home,

Poor DD2! So she’s likely 17, maybe just gone 18? Basically a child and she’s being bullied in her own home by adult DD1. DD1 needs to move out. When DD2 messes up her A levels, we’ll all know who’s to blame… If you know your DH is a wet blanket, why are you choosing to stay away and not protect DD2? That’s unforgivable.

DD1 sounds like a total arsehole. What she said about the cat was very cruel. Does she blatantly use her mental health to manipulate you all or is it slightly subtle? Instinct tells me it's the former. Your husband needs to step up and not be so feeble

I have a family member like your daughter. Her behaviour is terrible, she is rude, demanding, has appalling manners and she hates being challenged. She also alludes to "having mental health issues" and it's not her fault. It's actually her personality and l can see straight through her. Consequently she dislikes me and tries to scapegoat me so l am very low contact

@Mix56 l agree. The home in effect needs to be reclaimed and DD1 move out.

She’s too old to live at home, and that’s compounded by the fact everyone reverts to being a teen at their parent’s house.

You and DH need to sit her down like 3 adults and say, this isn’t working right now, let’s talk about what’s not working for us all, and how we can improve it. And then lay out the ground rules. 21 is still late adolescence, their brains are still a bit screwy so cut her a bit of slack - but be clear about what the boundaries are.

And then do everything you can to help her move out. It’ll be better for everyone.

Would family therapy help? You’ll know the bigger picture, and it is easy to make assumptions from the bit of info people read in a post, but it does seem that DD1 may be manipulative and know which buttons to press to scare you into not laying boundaries.

Probably because of this your boundaries as parents seem really poor. Allowing any other person to access phones, look at messages, lie to scare someone about the pets they live, etc. isn’t usual.

The outcome seems to be setting up your younger daughter for issues of not feeling safe in her home and parents not having her back.

It sounds like you can’t unpick this due to your worries about your older daughter. Outside help seems the way to go perhaps?

Totally understand that you might be reluctant to tackle things head on because of her MH issues, but they are absolutely not an excuse for nasty or controlling behaviour.

I don't have experience of your situation but I do have experience of a family member being tiptoed around because of MH issues. And their behaviour damaging others as a result. It sounds like you need a frank discussion with her about what constitutes acceptable behaviour whilst she lives with you. Including you and DH deciding what happens if she chooses to ignore your requests. Then you and DH need to both stick to your guns. I hope you can find a resolution that works for you all.

She moves out. You are an adult. She is an adult. She is responsible for her mental health. She does not get to behave like that. Out she goes.
No idea what to do about your husband? Buy him a set of balls in duty free?

I think you can also help your younger one to manage these situations. Just to step back and think - is she talking shite? - oh yes, she is, and practice walking away.

I also think you have to get over your fear of upsetting the elder one, and be clear with her, as part of a balanced conversation, that she is bullying her younger sister and that is going to have to stop.

If the elder one has some psychopathic traits - and it sounds like she does - then she needs very clear boundaries.

But ultimately help her move out as soon as you can. It’s not going to work long term.

Your DD1 needs to be given some home truths and told that now she's an adult, she's only welcome at home if she can behave like a decent human being. You all need to stop tiptoeing around her. Why is she in charge in your and your DH's house?

If I thought she was really not coping of course I would drop everything here. But she's a star, she knows I have to be here and is fine with that.

This jumped out at me. Does your younger daughter have any choice? Really?

Her needs are just as important as those of her older sister who is succeeding in commanding all the attention. The more so as she's in her final year of A levels and (possibly applying for university?).

She is being failed by both her parents.

Forgive me, but I cannot understand what sort of family crisis overseas would keep my away from my children at this stage in their lives.

We did have a big chat about expectations and boundaries before she came home and when she first moved back in.
We had kind of resolved to leave it there to sink in for a few weeks while I was away.
I'm going to talk to DH tomorrow before I speak to her and hope he backs me up.
I guess I am part of the problem in that parenting has generally been left to me. I'd hoped that DH might have stepped up in this situation and been a bit more pro active.
I need to do something because doing nothing will likely have explosive results.

It is so difficult when you look at your almost grown children, bought up in the same environment, same diet, same experiences, yet you see two completely contrasting individuals.

I don't know where we initially went wrong. Poor DD1 did have a torrid time in her mid to late teens with an abusive relationship and the sudden death of a friend. All things that, thankfully, DD2 has not had to deal with.
And yes, we made sure that she got counselling which she's had for many years

You can change security settings so message contents don't show on lock screen.

As to the questions about why I'm here and they are there, my elderly mother is here and having serious medical issues so I cannot, with the best will in the world, be anywhere else at the moment.
In an ideal world it should be enough that one parent is at home , it usually is.

And Thankyou for the MN kick up the bum.
It's given me a little more resolve that I have to man up and face it

I hope your mum is doing ok with her treatment.

I really fear that if this isn't resolved your dd2 won't even feel she can come for a visit, never mind a holiday when she's a student herself.

I think you both need to stop being afraid of her. It’s doing no one any good.

He needs to ring you when he’s ‘gone out to the supermarket’ to discuss this specifically and you’ll have to tell him that he’s going to have to be firm. In general , he needs to keep his phone closer and set his phone so that there’s no message preview on the lock screen.

Previous MH problems do not mean that there aren’t consequences for shit behaviour. And if she’s going to grow and manage in life there’s an argument to say that she needs guidance to learn how to deal with difficult conversations so she doesn’t relapse or fall back into unhelpful coping mechanisms. Avoiding those conversations out of fear doesn’t help her. Or the wider family.

Sorry but DD2 does have an abusive relationship to deal with. One with her sister, that she cannot escape from, that both her parents are enabling

It sounds, from your posts , that you've always been treading on eggshells with your eldest daughter and that you've caved in to her demands, behaviours because of potential fall out.
That you are relieved when she left you to go home and that you daren't text your husband, in case she sees the text and that she's always there when you speak to your husband, suggests that she is controlling the family dynamics.

You all sound scared of her.

By not tackling her bullying and controlling behaviour is basically enabling her to feel too dog.

You and your husband both need to stamp out this behaviour.

I can't imagine how your other daughter feels, every moment of every day being bullied, in her own safe home.

Not necessarily true. I’ve recently successfully negotiated boundaries with a 36 year old ‘child’. It was tough and I had to keep my nerve.