DD1 has just moved back into the family home and is causing chaos

[drivinmecrazy]

DD1 (21) graduated in June. she had a job in her university town which means she has only recently returned home.
She came home about three weeks ago. I left a few days later for six weeks and am now in Spain.
That left DD1, DD2 (17) and DH.
DD1 then came out to stay with me for ten days as a way to reconnect after three years away.
She's incredibly independent, opinionated and selfish. TBH I was, sadly, relieved when she went back home.
Since then I've had DD2 constantly messaging me about her, often in tears about what her sister has said to her.
DH, for all his tough talk when DD1 not there, just gets sucked into her side every bloody time.
It's got to the point that I cannot have a private conversation with him without DD1 being present.
This evening o have resorted to asking DD2 to write him a note to put on his pillow asking him to phone me from work tomorrow to discuss things.
I just don't know what to do and am dreading going home in a few weeks if it's still a war zone at home.
Honestly DD1 manipulates him so much that he can't see that DD2 is really struggling.
We all had a talk a few weeks ago about how it will be a big adjustment for us all living together again, and acknowledged that it would be tough on all of us especially DD1, who really doesn't want to be living back at home in an ideal world.
I'm feeling a mixture of frustration at all of them not being able to communicate and relief I'm not there!

Having had a daughter recently returned from uni, I have no advice but feel your pain. Like world war 3 here someday. Hugs

You seem to constantly make excuses for your older daughter's behaviour and play down any suggestions posters are making about how to tackle this completely unstable family dynamic. Your fear of upsetting your older daughter is making you an enabler. Your husband sounds like a complete wet wipe who needs to grow some bollocks to be quite honest.

I would look into family therapy and older daughter needs to look at moving out and getting a job. She lived away for three years so she can clearly survive going it alone.

I think your husband is believing her because she can't do the alternative which is that she is lying and manipulating him.

He can't…

Love the way that somehow this is a 'husband' problem, despite the fact that its clear that even if OP is at home, the problems still exist with this girl

Its clear she is PD and she needs to move out.

That’s exactly it.

People are sympathising with the younger one as she has nowhere else to go. She’s at a critical point in her education and you’ve let a bully into her home and you’re not even there and don’t much fancy going back!

And don’t lie about her only having gone through this for 3 weeks. You know that’s absolute bullocks. Given how easily manipulated and scared you and your husband are the damage to her sister must be enormous, I expect you have no real idea.

As a PP pointed out, she’s had 3 years off having to deal with this crap day to day and now she’s being brave enough to fight back. The very least you and her dad can do is back her up. But you don’t want to because the very dysfunctional dynamic currently suits you better than facing the monster you’ve created.

How would pushing her out of the door be beneficial to any of us?

It would definitely help DD2 and probably you @drivinmecrazy as you won't be as worried about what's going on. It'd also help your marriage. And probably DD1 even, as it'd help her realize she can't treat people badly and expect to get a good result.

We had family therapy years ago due to middle son school refusing and other issues. I remember saying to the therapist "oh youngest son is fine he doesn't have any issues and is coping" he absolutely shot me down as he explained that younger son knows not to rock the boat because all the attention was on pain in the arse middle son. Made me think and listen more to all of them.
Middle son now lives on his own he's 31 and doesn't work due to his mh problems. Youngest son is 30 and has a very good well paid career, could have been different for him if I hadn't listened to the therapist.

I'm extremely conscious of her mental well being and would move heaven and earth to ensure she didn't suffer as a result.

You're not, though.

It all sounds pretty weird.
Can you not bring your mother home with you ?

You can’t arbitrate remotely. You are in Spain. The girls have two parents to guide them and support them , both of them: so why are they (your husband most of of all) so helpless as to need you to sort this? Your husband needs to step up and out of this childish state pronto.

I have two ds’s with a similar age gap. Very, very different personalities, not the best relationship (same upbringing but not, they don’t have the same dad, so spent chunks of time in different households as children). Ds1 can sometimes cross into behaviour that borders on bullying ds2 (not that ds2 can’t also press his buttons and they do fall into stereotypical birth order patterns).. if he moved back home after uni - and it’s a big if - I’d make it absolutely clear what was and wasn’t acceptable, and if he couldn’t be nice he’d have to leave.

I do think threatening to take a sibling’s beloved pet away is really nasty - I’d definitely read the riot act on that one. And I’d try to get home as soon as you can.. you don’t want this tension messing up dd2's A levels.

Hi there! This has been mentioned upthread ….your Daughter sounds like she may have traits of EUPD / BPD. She needs help and therapy to manage this and live her best life. The therapy is called DBT (dialectical behavioural therapy) and is very effective for those that commit to it. YOU and your husband could also do a family course for DBT. Corrine Stoewsand runs and excellent one. As a start, I would read “Stop Walking on Eggshells”…..even if she has no formal diagnosis, this book and these skills for you and her are invaluable for living with a loved one who is highly sensitive.

The behaviour you describe is called splitting by the way….it’s a behavioural trait of BPD.

I do think threatening to take a siblings bored pet away is really nasty

See I don't get that. It would be really nasty if someone in a position of power said it, say if it came from the OP or her dh. But from a sibling? Why would you take it seriously? Just low level unpleasant and ridiculous.

It sounds like you have always parented them by taking sides and arbitrating in their arguments?

so they are always @telling mum!” (Your DD2) or @telling dad!” (DD1)

even as grown ups
it’s such an odd dynamic

you all have to change it!

Because siblings with PDs have immense power over the parents due to manipulation skills and I’d wager the DD2 has had things removed prior to this due to this.

Not given the really fucked up dynamic where DD2 knows her sister gets her way, rules the roost, engineers and manipulates with references to her poor MH and threats to self harm. Dad is utterly spineless and won’t even demand privacy to speak to his wife.

This interaction shouldn’t be judged by normal sibling squabbling standards. Nothing here is normal.

While I understand and respect the fact that you worry about dd1's mental health problems, it's worth remembering that dd2's mental health could also be at risk from the bullying. Being bullied by a sibling is associated with increased risk of later mental health problems.www.ox.ac.uk/news/2014-09-09-sibling-bullying-%E2%80%98linked-later-mental-health-disorders%E2%80%99

How does your middle son live alone if he doesn’t work? Asking out of genuine interest.

Please people. Instead of attacking the OP, let’s encourage her to get professional help. Please read the book I suggest. Dealing with a loved one who is emotionally sensitive requires information, skills training and support. Please seek this OP. It will make a huge difference to all your family.

@Porcupineintherough I think in our house pets are off limits so to speak! Plus in OP’s example the older dd was saying the cat would have to go because “allergies” and insinuating mum was on board.. I know how distressing my younger son would find that, and expect OP’s dd2 feels the same.
Plus, we all know how pervasive and damaging low level nastiness is in romantic relationships, why wouldn’t the same apply to siblings?
(I will caveat that by saying I’m an only child, and find some things about sibling relationships baffling.)

Thanks for that. It’s virtually impossible to find landlords who will rent to people on benefits now. A relative of mine is in this situation and cannot get anywhere to live . He still lives with his parents as a result.