DD1 has just moved back into the family home and is causing chaos

[drivinmecrazy]

DD1 (21) graduated in June. she had a job in her university town which means she has only recently returned home.
She came home about three weeks ago. I left a few days later for six weeks and am now in Spain.
That left DD1, DD2 (17) and DH.
DD1 then came out to stay with me for ten days as a way to reconnect after three years away.
She's incredibly independent, opinionated and selfish. TBH I was, sadly, relieved when she went back home.
Since then I've had DD2 constantly messaging me about her, often in tears about what her sister has said to her.
DH, for all his tough talk when DD1 not there, just gets sucked into her side every bloody time.
It's got to the point that I cannot have a private conversation with him without DD1 being present.
This evening o have resorted to asking DD2 to write him a note to put on his pillow asking him to phone me from work tomorrow to discuss things.
I just don't know what to do and am dreading going home in a few weeks if it's still a war zone at home.
Honestly DD1 manipulates him so much that he can't see that DD2 is really struggling.
We all had a talk a few weeks ago about how it will be a big adjustment for us all living together again, and acknowledged that it would be tough on all of us especially DD1, who really doesn't want to be living back at home in an ideal world.
I'm feeling a mixture of frustration at all of them not being able to communicate and relief I'm not there!

Actually, you do. Every EA in my area wants 3 months of bank statements and evidence of all income on top of that - and that’s if they even speak to you after you say “No it’s just one adult moving in”.

I was almost homeless, in daily contact with the council for 6 months. I’m well versed in how it works.

I wasn’t rude to you. I was rude to someone else and you went all white saviour.

Can we get back to the OP, please?
@drivinmecrazy I hope you don't mind me asking what happened to your DD1 that gave her complex PTSD?

You were rude right at the beginning when you said I should be embarrassed. I’m not engaging with you anymore @HardLanding

Yup you need to set some boundaries with dd1 she is throwing her weight around with zero consequences

I know how it works @HardLanding after many years. It does take some hunting around. Maybe try directly through a landlord rather than an estate agent. Best wishes. On 35k, someone could always decide to stop receiving UC if they find it's holding them back. My uncle lived for decades on 11k take home pay and he claimed not a thing.

@drivinmecrazy If you can afford to get your daughter some private therapy then I'd definitely recommend it while she's waiting for NHS therapy (keep quiet about it with the NHS though or they'll try and pass the buck.) And definitely if she has some trauma then EMDR is the way to go. I had some privately and some through the NHS.

I don't experience you as an adult applying boundaries. Hard Landing alluded to her own lifetime of experiences and stated that she isn't angry, but concerned for the welfare of a child. However you have chosen to cling to your own aggrieved sense of outrage that a poster hasn't complied with your demands.

I second EMDR as being the gold standard for trauma therapy and if you can afford to pay, OP, do so.

He needs to grow a backbone unless he wants his son to resent him.

Mamabear715 primarily the death of a close friend and an abusive relationship. Hard to handle when you're 16 😞

The younger daughter, not son. Sorry.

emdrassociation.org.uk/find-a-therapist/

if this helps, OP

OP please don't ignore what people are saying about your dd2. I've been there, and my relationship with my mum is now in tatters. For 30 years she convinced herself that I was ok, was ok with being treated the way your dd1 treats dd2. I really wasn't, and I tried telling her so many times, but she would not listen. I spent 30 years being told not to upset sister, and not to upset mother, but neither cared how much they upset me. I ended up in hospital.

I still remember my sister telling me I needed to get rid of my pet. It was one of the few times my mum did stand up for me. But I also remember a similar upsetting conversation when I was 17 when she did not, and my sister was never told to apologise to me. Rest assured if I'd said anything a millionth as hurtful I'd not have been allowed to get away with it.

She did much worse to me, yet I was supposed to not let it bother me.

If you still want a relationship with your younger daughter in 20 years she needs to be assured by you that no dog will join the family without discussion with her, and her cat will never be removed. And your dd1 has to apologise to her.

I spent 30 years being told not to upset sister, and not to upset mother, but neither cared how much they upset me. I ended up in hospital.

So sorry to hear that @ElegantlyTouched 💐

I’d be worried that DD1 is going to give DD2 PTSD.

DD2 is in an abusive relationship she can’t get away from. She literally has no safe space.

DD1 sounds very controlling.

I think you greatly underestimate your position of power. It doesn’t even need to be an ultimatum with DD1 to get out - but YOU have to have in your mind that if certain very clear rules (with regard to DD2) are not met - then she gets her marching orders.

You have a huge amount of power. All DD1 has to hear and see, is that her behaviour to DD2 is not acceptable. DD2 needs also to see and hear YOU saying that, meaning it, and keeping a really close eye and bringing DD1 as soon as it happens again.

It helps to choose 3 very clear changes you want to see - so DD1 has no excuse - and keep to it. Social pressure is very influential in a household.

Your DH will probably undermine and DD1 will try to undermine - but calmly firmly stick up for DD2 again, and again, and again. And really if it doesn’t change pretty soon, weeks not months, absolutely tell her she cannot treat her sister like this.

Just to say, it would be rather unusual to get complex PTSD solely from an abusive relationship and death of a friend at 16, and you mention that there was poor empathy from much earlier than that. There may have been some earlier biological vulnerability.
Some family work, maybe without DD1, to help you and DH and DD2 to have a shared understanding re DD1, may help you and DH to enforce boundaries, and help DD2 feel heard. And ultimately help DD1: it can be quite frightening to feel that others are frightened of you and are afraid to stand up against you. It can encourage more outrageous behaviour, to seek a containing response. You could look into an approach called 'Non violent resistance' that can be helpful in managing difficult behaviour. Good luck.

You say your dd2 is a star and doesn't mind you being over there but to me she sounds resigned to the fact that she's last on everyones list and her role is not to rock the boat.

She really needs you op, she won't put pressure on you and tell you this because she sounds too selfless and probably feels sorry for you.

But she should be your priority and I don't doubt in your mind she is, but somehow you've got to make her feel safe in her home.

@SilverLiningPlaybook
As a pp mentioned he gets benefits and I do a lot of caring duties. He's not just left to it although he finds interacting with others difficult including us.

This

@SilverLiningPlaybook sorry didn't see your later post. He has a council flat, he's had it about 6 years.
He was a top priority as he'd moved back home after living with his girlfriend's family and we only had the sofa available plus his health was affecting us all. Still took two years to get I don't think he'd get one these days.

Our eldest dd (23) has moved back again whilst she waits for rental to start. Last time we had a big bust up. This time she's more respectful. You can't always keep harmony. You have to put your foot firmly down. It's a nightmare though. I do sympathise.

Just to say, it would be rather unusual to get complex PTSD solely from an abusive relationship and death of a friend at 16,

@namechange5575 I'd say an abusive relationship can definitely give you CPTSD, at any age. My friend's been left unable to leave the home due to a phobia of men.

Death of a friend- well if you were the one to find them, or if they suffered a lot and you saw that, it could be pretty traumatic.

You're right that some people are maybe born more susceptible to things though.

Your posts remind me so much of the family next door. If you have another DD, you might be them! So from my perspective from what I see and hear, this is what I think...

The eldest daughter has long got away with being a manipulative liar and its the 2nd DD who gets told to pick up the slack. The DM has always turned a blind eye to DD1's behaviour, saying that she was the eldest DD in her family, so she feels a lot of sympathy for her DD1. this hasn't helped.

Dad is overwhelmed with the excess female energy around him, gets outnumbered on many occasions when it comes to family matters and is often found behind the lawn mower or in his shed, so ineffective and out of range to be useful.

Every now and then DD1 is back, and the Girls kick off as they were before. Nothing has changed for DD1 and she has fallen back into the old routines with behaviour and attitude. Had DD1 been forced to move into the smallest bedroom and ''not hers'' this might have helped with the re-settlement programme in the family pecking order, and perhaps this is something you need to look at as well including household chores, keeping fingers to oneself including Dad's mobile and setting boundaries. I would be tempted to make the rule she stays right away from DD2 too.

Do you have other siblings you can share your Mum load with so you can go back earlier? Even if its just for a week or so, and then back to Mum? It would help if you could get back and put DD1 back in her place, ultimately if she doesn't like the new way the household operates, she can trot off and find her own place again.

If she's causing this much chaos in the family home, she leaves.