DD1 has just moved back into the family home and is causing chaos

[drivinmecrazy]

DD1 (21) graduated in June. she had a job in her university town which means she has only recently returned home.
She came home about three weeks ago. I left a few days later for six weeks and am now in Spain.
That left DD1, DD2 (17) and DH.
DD1 then came out to stay with me for ten days as a way to reconnect after three years away.
She's incredibly independent, opinionated and selfish. TBH I was, sadly, relieved when she went back home.
Since then I've had DD2 constantly messaging me about her, often in tears about what her sister has said to her.
DH, for all his tough talk when DD1 not there, just gets sucked into her side every bloody time.
It's got to the point that I cannot have a private conversation with him without DD1 being present.
This evening o have resorted to asking DD2 to write him a note to put on his pillow asking him to phone me from work tomorrow to discuss things.
I just don't know what to do and am dreading going home in a few weeks if it's still a war zone at home.
Honestly DD1 manipulates him so much that he can't see that DD2 is really struggling.
We all had a talk a few weeks ago about how it will be a big adjustment for us all living together again, and acknowledged that it would be tough on all of us especially DD1, who really doesn't want to be living back at home in an ideal world.
I'm feeling a mixture of frustration at all of them not being able to communicate and relief I'm not there!

I’m 36 and I find it embarrassing that you left it until your child was 36 to teach them what boundaries are.

Ive been caught between a vety elderly ill mum and my kid too.

Your kids come first.

Get back home and support your dd2. Get help in place for your mum and get back home.

Stop hiding and grow up.

This sounds horrible OP. Hugs to you.
I think you need to create a safe space for your youngest daughter. You might have to completely change the way you treat the eldest- Say if she is bullying anyone at all, reading private messages, anything that would be unacceptable in any other houseshare- she has to go. I know that this must be really hard, but your youngest DD will be massively affected by not only her sister's treatment of her, but by her parents' inability to provide her with a safe, happy home.

It sounds a lot like me and my older sister. She would pick on me, bully me, mentally torture me even when we were about the same age as yours are now. She also had MH problems which made my parents scared to come down on her too heavily. But it really, really affected my sense of self-worth, and also gave me a feeling that I was not important to compare with her. I spent years afterwards feeling inferior to basically anyone else, and that affected the types of friendships and relationships I had.

We're a lot older now and though I love her dearly, I have inherited my parents' tendency to cut her too much slack. I still take far too much shit from her, and she still has the ability to make me cry often, even from afar. My father recently apologised to me for not doing something about the bullying when we were younger, and though I appreciated the acknowledgement, my sister still controls out whole family.

Oh for goodness sake. You know absolutely nothing about my situation. You can offer me an insult, but I choose not to accept it, thanks.

I could have written this myself OP. I’ve got 3 adult children and this one has been ‘tricky’ since the day she was born. The other 2, so different.

Regarding the mental health, I’ve found my daughter’s mental health improved when I calmly and lovingly stood up to her. I needed support to do it. She’s amazingly powerful.

She isn’t an ‘almost adult’, she’s an adult who is behaving like a spoilt adolescent, and you and your DH are enabling her by tolerating it, allowing to bully her sister and intimidate her parents.

Offer her a choice - behave like an adult, treating the house and the family with respect, or find her own place to rent where she can be as brattish as she wishes.

She didn't say she waited until her child was 36 to 'teach what boundaries are'.She said recently negotiated boundaries. Relationships change over time and new issues spring up which sometimes require establishing new boundaries. Even with adult children.

@drivinmecrazy In what area does she want to live? Booting her out with nowhere to go would seem a bit much, but she will be effecting DD2's studies in a crucial year, and upsetting her.

So I would set her up in a room in a shared house (unfortunately that's all benefits would cover at under 35, so I'd stick to that rather than helping her rent a flat, in case at some point she can't work due to her health.)

Then she can sign on and ideally start looking for work.

OP that sounds really tough, and I think you need to be doleing out some strict house rules and home truths for DD1, wether or not you have the support of DH. If she doesn’t like it she can love elsewhere. Can you give some examples of what she does? It must be shit having an adult child who behaves like this

Jesus, poor DD2. She’s a victim in her own home. Her mum has priorities elsewhere. Her dad is happily throwing her under the bus. And she’s expected to tolerate it cos poor older sister might be a bit unstable and is massively manipulative and unpleasant.

It goes without saying that she isn't appreciating living there and is taking the home/you for granted.

Has she got EUPD?

Counselling is very rarely helpful. Best just ask her to move out.

This.

And advice now is for all of us to do that as so many banks send a text as 2 factor authentication when you use your card so if your bag is stolen with your cards and phone it's much easier for the thief to spend your money. I know this is not the point of this thread but it's worth knowing.

Having MH issues isn’t an excuse to have bad behaviour and you can’t be scared to tell her not to do horrible things

I appreciate all of the comments on this thread and have taken all points of view on board.
But those comments I struggle with most are those that say she's 21 and an adult so we should just give her an ultimatum of change your behaviour or leave.

To us she's still very much our child, struggling to find her place in the world.

How would pushing her out of the door be beneficial to any of us?
If it were that simple in sure I wouldn't be posting on MN.
I think part of the problem I have is that DH allows himself to be sucked into her version of events which then leads us to a situation that's almost combative.

I can't help but feel this might be by design but hope it's just a consequence of circumstance.
Anyway, Thank you for all of your insights, and I'm sorry for this of you that have been or are going through something similar.
It's so hard to fight the urge to place blame on ourselves or the other party when infact both can be hurting

I feel for you op. Ds1 is 21 and recently returned home from uni. It is hard work living with him. He is quite a bad tempered character. Shouts and snaps at everything I ask. He makes mess everywhere. He really doesn't get on with his younger brothers. Especially ds3 who is 13. He has hit his 18 year old brother (not hard) hurt the younger one without actually touching him (throwing stuff at him) To be fair the younger 2 are winding him up. But I've told him he's the adult he cannot hit them. It is hard work. It is at the point I don't want to make conversation because he shouts. But he thinks we all hate him...he doesn't seem to realise he causes people to not like him. So I know where you are coming from, sometimes I feel like leaving home for a week, especially as ds3 has a very similar character. Ds2 has gone to university so isn't home at the moment. I do have dh on my side though. Your dh really needs to back you up and dd2 by the sounds of it.

You’ve got to stand up to get, she’s going to get the shock of her life once she starts work/living independently if she behaves like a brat

Yeah, I really feel for DD2 here. It's a bloody horrible situation to be trapped in and will leave its mark on her and shape

Whilst I really do understand what you are saying, your DD2 is living with an abusive relationship that is being supported by her own father. How will that affect her mental health? You need to ring your husband now and tell him to go into a separate room so you can speak to him. Asking him to ring when at work is wrong. Your DD1 needs to understand that couples need to talk about things too. How would she like you listening in on conversations with a partner?

I have some experience of a returning adult child...........my eldest sounds quite similar to your eldest op. When he is nasty, bullying etc I call him out on it. Tell him its not ok. He has poor MH and behavioural difficultes but neither are an excuse for being appalling to his family/anyone else.

So he knows that such behaviour wont be tolerated here. If on a future visit he behaves the way he did in the summer Ill be telling him "much as I love you, you arent welcome if thats how you behave" - Id tell your dd to behave in a respectful, mature, cooperative way or she can move out elsewhere.

What a nasty post.

OP doesn’t need to grow up just because she isn’t ditching her elderly mum.

DD2 has another parent, it shouldn’t need the OP to go home just to manage things.

Jesus. I have siblings a decade younger than me and I’ve managed to never lay a finger on them, and trust me, twin siblings tag teaming you is annoying as fuck.

Another adult with parents indulging them like they’re a 2 year old, whilst the actual children take the brunt of this.

The middle sibling between me and my younger ones was treated like this, and made our lives Hell, living with an abuser you cannot escape whilst the adults tell YOU that YOU have moderate your behaviour so that you don’t set them off, don’t make them angry because they’ll self harm.

It’s little fucking wonder I watched both twins sleep walk into abusive relationships.

Middle sibling was Dx with a personality disorder a few years back. Self harm is a weapon used to keep people compliant. Wise up.

Why was your dd2 distressed about her sister saying she wanted a specific breed of dog? Why couldnt she tell her sister that noones getting rid of a cat.

I think theyre all playing your emotions.
Email your husband instead of text maybe or just message 'call me' doesnt matter if she sees that, surely?

Fucking phone!!
..shape the person she is. Projecting slightly but I have been through similar and it doesn't leave you and it does change the way you view your parents.

Rubbish for you at the moment as there isn't anything you can physically do. I think in an ideal world DD1 should move out.

But you can turn that feature off. So why doesn’t he? It’s a serious violation of privacy that she’s reading his messages.