DD1 has just moved back into the family home and is causing chaos

[drivinmecrazy]

DD1 (21) graduated in June. she had a job in her university town which means she has only recently returned home.
She came home about three weeks ago. I left a few days later for six weeks and am now in Spain.
That left DD1, DD2 (17) and DH.
DD1 then came out to stay with me for ten days as a way to reconnect after three years away.
She's incredibly independent, opinionated and selfish. TBH I was, sadly, relieved when she went back home.
Since then I've had DD2 constantly messaging me about her, often in tears about what her sister has said to her.
DH, for all his tough talk when DD1 not there, just gets sucked into her side every bloody time.
It's got to the point that I cannot have a private conversation with him without DD1 being present.
This evening o have resorted to asking DD2 to write him a note to put on his pillow asking him to phone me from work tomorrow to discuss things.
I just don't know what to do and am dreading going home in a few weeks if it's still a war zone at home.
Honestly DD1 manipulates him so much that he can't see that DD2 is really struggling.
We all had a talk a few weeks ago about how it will be a big adjustment for us all living together again, and acknowledged that it would be tough on all of us especially DD1, who really doesn't want to be living back at home in an ideal world.
I'm feeling a mixture of frustration at all of them not being able to communicate and relief I'm not there!

DD1 sounds really immature & maybe a bit disturbed . That's really messed up

I’ve been in a similar situation to you, without the bullying of the other child, instead it was causing a lot of trouble in other ways. It’s a horrible situation.
My advice to you is to go back home . Whatever is going on with your mother, you should not leave your other daughter in a situation where her weak father is useless and her sister is bullying her. She is studying for A Levels and needs a supportive calm environment. It’s up to you and your feckless husband to provide that and she should be your priority, not your mother. Put something in place for your mother and go home.

If your older daughter can’t stop being wholly inappropriate she needs to find somewhere else to live. She should not be reading messages on your husbands phone , bullying her sister or preventing you and your husband from communicating privately. MH problems or not, she needs to either change her behaviour or leave . Give her a couple of weeks to find somewhere else.

You need to get a grip . Read the riot act to both your OH and your older daughter. Show your younger daughter what proper parenting is. You are letting her down.

Agreed. It’s the father that needs to stop hiding, not the OP. So far he’s doing a crap job of parenting.

I appreciate all the concerns about DD2 but they really aren't necessary.
She's been living in this environment for three weeks not a lifetime.
I'm extremely conscious of her mental well being and would move heaven and earth to ensure she didn't suffer as a result.
We are very fortunate where we live, have lovely neighbours who have been in their lives for years so have plenty of back up for DD2. At the moment she says she doesn't need that support but knows if she needs it people are there.
I wouldn't be here if it weren't necessary and everyone is completely on board with it.

She's been living in this environment for three weeks not a lifetime.

So has DD1 only behaved this way since returning from uni?

Don't quite get why you can't just text him tomorrow when he's at work. Why do you need to involve DD2 in leaving notes? Doesn't he take his phone to work?

OP your DH sounds pretty useless if he can't protect your younger child from bullying. Like other PP say he needs to grow some balls and sort it. It shouldn't need you to be involved at all.

Stop worrying about DD1s MH and start worrying how DD2s will end up if this carries on.

Can your dd2 not stand up for herself at all? Because being told (by someone who quite often bullshits) that at some point in the future the family is buying x type of dog seems a strange thing to get upset about. And the thing about getting rid of the cat sounds utterly ridiculous - she can't possibly have believed it was true just because her sister said it. Is she abnormally sensitive (or credulous) do you think?

I'm not defending your dd1 but do you think you might have a very fixed family dynamic going? So whenever the girls argue your dd1 runs to daddy and dd2 comes crying to mummy? Do they ever iron out differences between themselves without your intervention? Are the sides always fixed?

I have an older DD with issues who returned after a few years I can relate.
Despite how difficult it is I don't think you can allow your DD1 to rule the household in the way she is. You'll see her up in the world with an unrealistic expectation of who she is & where she fits in, no-one else would tolerate that behaviour in the real world.
I'm sorry about your DD1 but I think she will end up damaging your other DD.
I'm thinking that you need to have a family meeting to discuss the issues here. If you need to, bring someone in to chair it.
Re establish boundaries & expectations & stick to them

"How would pushing her out of the door be beneficial to any of us?"

Well for starters your younger daughter will no longer be bullied, no more DD1 self centered drama and DD1 will get the opportunity to experience the real world, rather than being molly coddled and enabled by her parents.

So you think it’s okay for your neighbours to be providing the support you should be giving? Your family dynamics sound completely messed up.

I think you should call your DD and tell her “you aren’t getting a dog, the cat is staying and stop winding up your sister, I’ll be home soon, clearly we have to talk about ground rules again”.

I still can't get past the phone thing. Even if DD1 did see the text message before your husband, surely all it would say is 'Ring me when you've got a minute please'?

Are you not allowed to talk to your husband? I truly don't understand.

This is a husband problem. You should be able to away in an emergency without chaos ensuing. Is he an adult parent or a toddler. Tell him to bloody step up because you have other pressures to deal with, it’s no time for him self indulgently play helpless.

If you are afraid of telling her bullying is unacceptable in the home, what do you think will happen to her in the adult world? It’s your job to instil manners and respect for people, and if she doesn’t understand that, there must be consequences. I understand you do not want to give her an ultimatum to leave, can you think of any other consequences?

It also might play out that DD1 has always bullied DD2, & DD1 sounds very powerful, determined & (I think) maybe a bit personality disordered, honestly this is incredibly hard to deal with for anyone.
I also think that its actually pretty disturbing to lie like this. It rang alarm bells for me, it's a weird thing to lie about (there was no conversation where the family had decided to get a dog & get rid of the cat). That behaviour is really messed up.

This is ridiculous. Time for both of you to start parenting your children.

I disagree OP. You say yourself DD1 has had issues for a very long time. Be honest with yourself for DD2s sake and have a realistic think about the impact that will have had on her, watching you all tip toe around her sister.

Only now, DD2 is no longer the slowly boiler frog because she’s had very long stints of DD1 not living with her. She will likely react very strongly to DD1 and her bullshit.

DD2 is probably not allowed to contradict anything DD1 says and has been trained to give her sister the correct reaction, which she did - and was then gaslit by her own parents.

Depressingly familiar.

Same, but then I’d call and be fine with her hearing what I was saying. I mean you could call him and say, stand up and go into another room.

Part of the problem is things like secret notes and secret convos. Maybe you need to be more open towards each other as a family and just say what you think. The note on the pillow is a bit mad tbh.

Did DD2 believe her about the dog and the cat?
I was the youngest DD in our family and yy when my older DSIS moved back home, she could be awful but I very quickly realised when she was deliberately trying to be annoying or to upset me.
Yy you need to speak to DD1 about her behaviour but DD2 is 17, you need to help her with her resilience because DD1 is not the only difficult or contrary person she will meet in life.

I'm sure lots of people here have had the experience of an adult child returning to the family home, and all the challenges that can bring, but your DD1 sounds like a sociopath! Which is maybe a bit more unusual. What are her plans now? If you want to avoid confrontation, can you afford to help her financially so that she can move out?

OP, your children should be your priority. You are showing your dd that she isnt a priority. She’s just telling you what she thinks you want to hear. Go home before your relationship with her is broken beyond repair. I cannot think of a single solitary reason why I would not retiring home if I were in your shoes.

Reading this reminded me of an ex-client. I had to chair a multi-agency meeting (every agency imaginable).We were all in agreement of the need for vigilance and supervision, as the client was so skilled in splitting teams and pitting one professional against another. Within one day we had CPNs, Social Workers and paramedics at loggerheads, such was the client's manipulation and grooming. I don't know whether you suspect your older daughter has a personality disorder, but I suggest you take an anti-intuitive approach to this.
No matter how hard you may find it, please focus on you. By that, I mean stop all thoughts of 'phones, boundaries, dogs, and have a real conversation with yourself.
Why? Because your older daughter has latched on to a perceived weakness in you-I don't believe you are weak, I think you are having to deal with domestic terrorism from the safety of another country.
Can you pinpoint the moment you first became afraid of her? Once you have found it, no matter how painful it will be, you then have your solution.
Imagine what could have been differently, at that precise moment, and then apply and model that difference to your current situation.
Once you feel confident enough, you need to share this with your husband.
I also think you will need a plan B, because he seems to be strangely passive.
As others have said, you and your husband are the parents, and your priority must be your younger daughter.
Placating your older child will never lead to peace, you will be giving her carte blanche to make her sister's life a misery.
And when you do tell her to leave, please remember that you are not throwing her out-she left home 3 years ago, and is only with the family as a guest. A guest who is destroying your family. A guest who has to go. If she chooses to self-harm, she will-you will never have any control over that and, as much as that is terrifying to a mother, there's also a freedom. Your daughter has to learn that actions have consequences.
Good luck, please go home to support your youngest child.

If you can’t see how fucked up it is that you’re asking DD2 to slip notes under her fathers pillow so you can attempt to speak to him alone, then I despair. This is seriously disordered and probably not the first utterly bizarre thing DD2 has had to do to mitigate her sisters crap and her parents inability to deal with it.

The OP said herself she is dreading going back into the fray with DD1. If the father also won’t deal with her, and then a reliance on these neighbours… it all sounds a bit pass the parcel parenting. DD2 might end up far more damaged (in a different way) than her older sister. Imagine being told to go to the neighbours…

…why should she be asked to seek shelter somewhere other than her own home when she’s done nothing wrong??? Very unfair. DD2 must be seething.
Now they are older, I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if this breaks down into violence. Those with personality disorders can be shockingly adept at making non violent people hit them.

What a miserable life for DD2, stop sacrificing her for her sister, she has feelings too and can be hurt emotionally just as much as the self harming her sister. Do something ffs, you’re the parents here, act like it, be fair.

I hope you can get the conversation(s) in tomorrow that you need to have. With DD2 in her A level year she HAS to take priority and your DH needs to back her up. You should be able to put your foot down with him that he takes responsibility for how the house runs until you get back.

I understand why you're stuck. Elderly parents sometimes have to be helped, there may be no other options. I am reminded of the first half of my younger sister's final year at school, which our mother spent in the UK with her mother while we were still in Australia. She'd tried to put things in place and make sure the school knew to be proactive about any issues ... didn't happen. I recall when she got back mid-year and realised what was or wasn't going on, my sister was told you WILL be accepting tutoring from your sister like it or not ... (I was happy to, was tutoring others her age in the same subjects already).

I hope you can put your foot down with DD1 that if she winds her sister up any further she will be needing somewhere else to stay very shortly. But that relies on your DH agreeing. Good luck!