Feeling low after spoiled evening

[pipwoes]

This will put me to anyone who knows but I want to vent
I had tickets to a great gig tonight - a treat as it was also very local. DH and I were going and the plan was that DS(16) would keep an eye on the dog and Ds who's 10
We were getting ready and said " you need to go sit with him (DS2 age 10) and watch tv, make sure he brushes teeth and goes to bed ok"
Older DS starts moaning and groaning and says " he'll be ok. I don't need to sit with him" and so on. We had words earlier as he'd been mean to his younger brother mocking and mimicking him. I had offered money for the "babysitting" and to give him money to go to shop for some treats
He refused to say he'd go downstairs so now I've had to stay home (wouldn't have enjoyed myself leaving 10 year old alone) 10 year old has now gone with DH and I'm home with the teen who has zero regret or shame and just asked if o got him any treats in like I'd said I would.
I'm
Missing the gig and it wasn't cheap and now I feel thoroughly pissed off. Would you be? How can I make the teen see this isn't ok? The irony is we get a family friend the same age to babysits normally and all she has to do is sit with 10 year old and ensure he gets off to bed. I even offered to pay my son

On the contrary I praise any crumbs of decent behaviour, thank him for getting ready for school/ getting up without complaint

This sticks out to me. Behaving decently, getting ready for school, getting up without complaint. These are just the behaviours of a respectable human being getting towards adulthood. Stop praising it.

Your 16 year old sounds very immature. Or at least he has been allowed to behave in an immature way. Praise mature actions but only when they are mature for his age not mature for a 10 year old.

We had basic house rules (DCs are now adults)

• DCs not allowed in each other's rooms without invitation ever
• No sniping/teasing/winding each other up
• No door slamming
• No shouting
• No fighting
• Be polite - please/thank you
• 'Say sorry, now say it like you mean it'

We jumped on any incidents of sniping/teasing instantly. That stopped it escalating into fighting. DCs now have a good relationship even though they are now leaving home.

I disagree. I assume the OP is financially supporting the 16yo. She can make his life a lot harder than he can make hers!

Don't know if this works for all kids but as you ask, the way I deal with this is... if I find something wrong they should have done (litter left, clothes not hung up, whatever it is) I make them come back and do it even though it would be easier to do it myself. Every. Single. Time. If they refuse I coolly crank in the consequences which range from reduction of something they want/like, to withdrawal of my help on things I do for them (quid pro quo).
My rules (just in my head I don't discuss this) are
I ask nicely, no scorn or rudeness
I thank them when it's done. Easy breezy not effusive gratitude- we're all a team.
They don't have to do it instantly (unless it's something in the way) but I tell them when I want it done by (that's not right sort it out before dinner please).
The consequences are fair and always apply.
Don't lose my temper.
Everyone's happy if the person in charge is fair and in control.

It gets results for me, I think because everyone's expectations are crystal clear and there is no escape.

Agree with @GnomeDePlume I tell my kids if I have high expectations of them it's a compliment, it means I think they can do things well and will be the kind of adults that gets stuff done. They like that and rise to the challenge. Low expectations = low self esteem, they might not be conscious of it and might feel like they've won cos they get to be lazy but it's insidious and doesn't do them any good

He probably would've done this - ie his version of checking but he was rude, sullen and after a day of shit off him I just flipped. Younger one has had shit from friends so got a treat, DS1 got left alone and I say feeling miserable

wow; op you don’t want to take any responsibility for how this is playing out. And taking a look at yourself isn’t taking personal responsibility. It’s saying I shall think about it.

you are coming across that you clearly favour the younger and are punitive of your elder. And to make it even worse, you’re also trying to make the elder infantilise the younger too, like he’s the special kid who needs to be sat with.

reading your responses if feels like you deliberately martyred yourself so you’d have something else tp hold over your eldest

be careful op. When he’s old enough he will run and he won’t look back. And your youngest will feel smothered and will be out the door after him

I get the impression that the loudest (and most ridiculous) voices in here don't actually have 16yo boys entrusted to care for 10yos. Much easier to judge something you are entirely ignorant of.

Sorry you missed out on your fun night. I think you did the right thing. Better to keep our children safe than risk their wellbeing by leaving them in angry hands.

Id have just gone to the gig with stern warning to the 16 year old to be nice and warning both of them that if theres any drama then youll be very pissed off.
You didnt need to cancel just in case the 16yr old was a grump

You should have hired a babysitter for the 10 year old. Given how you talk about the 16 year old, it sounds like you don't see him as really having any positive or redeeming qualities or the ability to take on even basic responsibility for himself at this point. Not sure why you would want him to babysit at this time, especially given your expectations for babysitters. If your 10 year old can't be left alone in a room, you hire someone to sit with him when you aren't there. Not the job for an angsty immature mean spirited older sibling.

As ever everything is taken literally. I did not expect all evening surveillance just not for DS1 to be ignored.

This is good advice. I was the eldest of 4, with 2 sibs a lot younger. They took all my DM's attention and she never spent any time with me. And - though I got on well with my sibs - I was envious and sad about the uncomplicated relationship she had with them, compared to me. I didn't understand that it's normal for the parent-child relationship to be fairly uncomplicated when a child is 7-10, and equally normal for it to be distinctly complicated in the child's teens. I felt that there was something wrong with me, and felt totally rejected by my DM.

This is essentially it. But the majority have told me I'm harsh on 16 year old and babying 10 year old.
I'm getting the message now that I'll die alone and unhappy, probably with 2 sons who hate me so I think I'll step away from this thread now

Strange how despite many, many saying the exact same thing over and over, it's taken you now to deny it. I think you're backtracking, you would have clarified straight away as soon as people queried why you needed DS16 to sit with with your son. Rather than let it go on til now.

Good luck with it OP. Its not easy this parenting malarkey. Stick to your guns with the eldest, do not let him rule the roost. Get your husband on board and show your children a united front. Work with both kids to get them helping round the house. You did nothing wrong in my opinion, but you do need to show your kids consequences backed up by both parents if they don't do what they're asked. Best of luck.

OP you said you were open to honesty. What happened? Now you're annoyed that people are doing that and being passive aggressive.

I have a 16 year old DD and a 10 year old DS.

DD has been looking after DS from time to time since the age of 14 - e.g. if I popped to the shops but increasingly so now. She TELLS me and DP go out once a month together saying she's happy to babysit bring over a couple of friends and eat pizza while they all look after DS They spend sometime in separate rooms but sometimes she or a friend helps with his homework, play board games or similar with him. She goes to her friends homes and does similar for their younger siblings.

Would it work if you encouraged that sort of approach and made it a social opportunity for your DS ? I know DS loves it when it happens - he gets plenty of attention but a time line is drawn and he has to GO TO BED and he does because while he may try to ignore DD he doesn't ignore her friends -15/ 16 / 17 year olds can seem quite imposing when you're 10!!

@pipwoes

I think you should step away from the thread, but not because you're a terrible mother. Because you have had a bit of a judgemental response. This isn't exactly what you want from mumsnet is it? And you posted on Chat so the normal bollocks about AIBU doesn't even apply. Hope the rest of your weekend goes better.

Now is that not just a tad dramatic?! What about your husband?

Op ignore the nasty comments I get you (although would have gone to the gig). I have a 16 year old who is a mainly a lazy, selfish and entitled brat and a 12 year old who still loves a cuddle and doesn't talk to me like shit. Of course it's easier to talk fondly of the youngest and think I prefer one over the other - right now, yes in terms of behaviour and attitude I do find the youngest easier to love but it doesn't mean I actually love one more or less. And I'm pretty certain 12 year old will have his moments in the coming years and the 16 year old will mature and rejoin the family as the lovely lad he was. Hang in there.

And to the posters that blame lack of parenting or guidance when younger for things like not flushing the loo, oh how I laughed! I look forward to reading your posts when your helpful, clean and loving baby becomes a teen rendering them suddenly incapable of undertaking the most basic tasks.

My dramatic was directed towards I'm getting the message now that I'll die alone and unhappy, probably with 2 sons who hate me so I think I'll step away from this thread now from op.

OP - please make a different thread for general behaviour and what 10yr old should be doing. Most ppl only read the first post and it will pull you down.

Based on the little you have posted
Not flushed the loo - call him back to do it every single time. If he's not in the house then he gets to flush one of yours on his return.
Not putting rubbish in the bin - call him back to do it every single time
Treat him as training a toddler, you don't automatically punish immediately

At 10yr we only allowed DD to do things with other children, ie all went to one house and went to park en masse.
Walk to school alone? No. Walk back alone? Yes. Why? More children and parents are around in that set 30 minutes. In the morning its all dribs and drabs.
Go on a bus with another 10yr, go round town with another child.
Take to cinema with friend but they watch it alone (age appropriate), bring back together.
Buddy system basically.

Also get cheap text/call phone for piece of mind. Dont get "bullied" into an Internet one as soon all his mates will watch porn etc on it. It does happen.

Any other specific problems? Better to do that then general. DH has to back you though, will he?

but that’s not what your fight was about with your eldest. You told him “We were getting ready and said " you need to go sit with him (DS2 age 10) and watch tv, make sure he brushes teeth and goes to bed ok”

you then said.” He refused to say he'd go downstairs so now I've had to stay home (wouldn't have enjoyed myself leaving 10 year old alone) “ and then send your ten year old to the gig.

your eldest didn’t need to go downstairs. Your youngest wasn’t alone. He is ten. No one needs to sit and watch tv with him and he’s old enough to know to brush his teeth and go tp bed ok.

You behaved in an unacceptable manner and tried to blame your eldest. It was you who caused the fight. Trying to pretend now you just wanted to make sure the youngest wasn’t ignored if he needs something is a continuation of the poor behaviour.

Unless the "ignoring" extended to the 16 year old failing to drag the 10 year old from a burning house- why does it matter if the 10 year old was "ignored"?

A ten year old is capable of amusing themselves.

Yeah amazing how quickly she's forgotten that she told us what happened. What part of sit with him and watch tv then make sure he goes to bed isn't sitting with him all night? A late night and forgetting to brush his teeth aren't end of the world things, his teeth won't fall out and he becomes a delinquent. 😂

But op would rather have a tantrum that the eldest didn't do as he was told immediately and ruined her own night, and is now having a tantrum on here that people aren't blaming her kid for it. It's not his fault. It's all hers. But she's not willing to accept that or that she is clearly favouring one kid so good luck to her. It won't end well unless she accepts that and changes. It's not a bad thing, I'm guessing the eldest is like her in personality so they clash. Youngest isn't and they get along better, but showing it doesn't end well for the kids.

What harm will being ignored for a few hours do him? It won't be that long, the gap between you going out and him going to bed isn't more than 2 or 3 hours is it? I'm guessing he's in his own home, is fed and warm, has a TV, maybe a computer, books, games, toys. It is quite healthy for him to be a bit independent. I'd go as far as to say if they don't get on he's better off being ignored.

If you have someone (anyone) watching a child then you expect them to keep an eye out. Something that can't be done from a bedroom with (I'm assuming) the door closed and a headset on. He had agreed to be present for a few hours on a one off occasion. Then he pulled out of this at the last minute.
You can't pull a 10yo out of a burning building if you don't know it's on fire