What I've done vs what DH has done

[FuckMyActual]

I'm pissed off

Both have busy weeks, I'd argue mine is busier as I do 90% of the childcare but that's somewhat separate to this.

We are going on holiday, we have a house sitter coming to take care of the cats. Because I've been really poorly with a chest infection, things had gone to shit here. Anyway. The weekend, I say we need to get sorted.

Here's what I did vs what my husband did. Despite constantly telling him he needs to do his share!

Me

Washed, dried and folded 7 loads of laundry
All dishes
Scrubbed kitchen floor
Scrubbed worktops and cooker
Cleaned fridge, cleared freezer space for house sitter
Packed all kids clothes
Packed my clothes
Made all meals
Took dog to kennels
Did basic food shop
Cleaned bathrooms
Did all the chemical wizardry with the pool
Tidied the garden
Hoovered everywhere
Put away all toys
Dusted everywhere
Washed all bedding and replaced on beds
Took kids to various activities

*DH
*
Tidied the shoes at the bottom of the stairs
Put away his screwdrivers
Complained relentlessly that he can't see what needs doing like I do
Ignored very clear list of things he was provided with
Claimed headache and had a long nap
Claimed fatigue and had long bath
Played Xbox with kids

Oh- took a bag of rubbish out.

Hasn't packed his stuff, *Hasn't DONE ANYTHING ELSE AT ALL!!!
*

What the actual fuck?!? I am
Fuming and he is looking at me in sheer confusion that I'm so mad!!

Am I going mad here?? I wasn't being a martyr about it, we've got a whole human being coming to stay in our house and look after our animals. They need a welcoming space and not 10 days worth of mess because DH and kids decided that the correct thing to do was wait for me to get better instead of getting on and getting the fucking house cleaned! I was practically spitting blood at the end of the weekend, I actually said he can piss off if he expects me to lift a finger on holiday, he can do anything- ANYTHING that needs to be done. He said "ummmm..... okay? I really don't know what you're angry about but I guess it's something I've done?"

WELL DONE, EINSTEIN!!!

😡😭😭😡😡😭😡😡😡

This. Time for drastic action

Project managing is still work though. And is basically what the OP has done so far.

To the other person, it will be looking like nagging, being on their case and treating them like a child (which might be fair enough for the dcs, but not for the DH).

im a strong proponent of stopping to treat men like children when they act like this. They are adults and need to be treated as such - which means no one to come and save them/sort things out because they just can’t be bothered.

Sounds normal to me op, that's why I have an exh!

Holiday prep was always stressful but I worked pt so he thought that meant I did it all, except I also had to work my 5 hours, pick up the kids from childcare (it lasted 6 hours so always a rush to make it through traffic) stop them from killing each other, go shopping, walk the dog, cook ... by which time he was home.

Thankfully both now adults

Why do men "not see" the mess we see?
It's too common to ignore. My husband said I have high standards - I don't! The place is not spotless, it's liveable and that takes daily work.

He could live in a really downgraded version of cleanliness to mine. Most men I've met if alone live in minimalism and squalor.

Why? It can't just be socialisation because they grow up in the same homes as girls.

Is it something biological?

Late to the party but go ahead and vent. OP I have been there and it's so frustrating

i’m up, having coffee, listing everything that needs doing today and who by and I’m going print off multiple copies, fix them to the TVs, fridge, microwave, back of toilet doors- basically all the places they go to procrastinate and I’ve already changed the WiFi password and taken all the batteries out of remote controls and console controllers. Have taken all phone chargers. The only thing I haven’t taken is 7yo’s tablet, because I don’t expect him to toil away all day. He’s probably the least messy of the bunch. The last line on my list of chores will be something like “You won’t get anything back from me until you do these things. You have no respect for me or your home and until you show some, I will keep everything.” What hacks me off even doing all this is that it’s another task and another mental weight that I’ve had to take on to try and wheedle some help, and that if they’d just pulled their weight in the first place and not pretty much trashed the place when I was in bed with pneumonia, this wouldn’t be a problem today. It would still be an endemic problem, but not a workload one today.

if this doesn’t get them doing stuff then it’s absolutely hopeless. Ideally, they would look ashamed of themselves and immediately start quietly getting on with it. But in reality, there will be a massive huffing strop from my DD- the worst of the mess makers, hands down. My DH will look at me like I’ve lost the plot- the second worst, but a fucking close second to DD and the absolute worst when it comes to fair division of labour. My oldest DS, who is the worst for staying on task when he gets there and needs so many reminders and checks and prompts will look confused and cross.

So, for that bloke earlier who considered it perfectly understandable that the men in my house would be messy and inconsiderate and of course expect me to do it all or another woman to- the messiest person in my house is a girl. I expect that’s got your dingle dangle in a tangle, but there you go. I’ve got a teen girl and boy and a little boy. Little boy is the tidiest.

I think it’s because they grow up in those homes and see the division of labour falling unfairly heavily on the women that they grow up thinking that these things (cleaning, organising, life admin, childcare, cooking, meal planning) are outside of their remit. So when they live alone they live off student snack food and takeaways, they might hoover but less often than their mum made them push it around when they lived at home, they’ll let dishes build up until they have none and be surprised that they have to do them. I have genuinely known men leave their washing up so long and be so avoidant that they’ve thrown it all away and bought new

I've not read the whole thread but try to change habits now, otherwise you'll be way down the road and they will be entitled lazy teenagers and your other half will still do nothing.

Sorry, my last was in response to @whentheraincame

This isn't going to go well. Good luck.

Get through this holiday but for your own sanity, don't do any more 'family holiday'. No one 'needs' a family holiday, it's just marketing bollocks to make us spend money and 'create memories' .

Chose your own holiday next year, on your own or with a friend. DH can take the kids away on his own if he thinks family holidays are essential.

I’ve completely missed what date you go away?

(Don’t cut plugs off things because sometimes (eg my telly) they’re made differently and can’t be rewired for some unknown reason)

Maybe it’s better to surrender to it all now, for various reasons it has to be done for your sanity, for the person coming to look after the animals etc but definitely back right off the second you are all on the plane or in the car or whatever.

Just look after your seven year old and do what you want. Can you afford to eat out with him? If so, do that. If not, prepare yours and his meals, wash up after you both and leave it at that. If there’s no milk because everyone drank it and didn’t replace it, go out for your coffee.

Look for activities that please you and him, let everyone else please themselves. They want to swim but didn’t pack their costumes? I mean, that’s unfortunate but not something that personally affects you. They’re hungry and have no dinner because they didn’t prepare? That’s also unfortunate but you and the seven year old had chips and ice cream for dinner so you’re okay. Be nice, but detached. An adult and two teenagers can fend for themselves. Pretend you’re me. I wouldn’t concern myself with what your husband and two teens were eating or wearing or doing on holiday, so there’s no need for you to either.

And when you’re back, stop doing their laundry. They are capable of doing it, I simply stopped doing that for my kids when they were about 12. I showed them how to work the machine, reminded them that they are running out of clothes a few times and would hang out their stuff if they were busy IF THEY PROVED THAT THEY WOULD ALSO DO THAT FOR ME.

They were then blessed with a scout leader who banned parents from packing. She said ‘I’ve given them a list. If they don’t pack what’s on the list that’s their problem. They’ll be cold, wet, dirty, uncomfortable and bored. That’s their problem, have a good weekend yourself and pick them up at 4pm.’ She would have a spare sleeping bag and clothes in case of disasters of course but had zero sympathy for their lack of planning.

And, a final thought, I had a mum who nagged everyone to get the household running her way and it was horrible to grow up in that atmosphere. So let them crack on with it.

We go Friday morning.

So go on holiday and have your holiday by which I mean take a holiday from what you normally do which is housework cooking cleaning etc
letcthem know you’re on holiday
what’s for tea mum
I don’t know I’m on holiday you decide and cook it
where’s my (insert object) mum
I’m I don’t know I’m on holiday from looking for things
can i go to the beach mum
yes dear but I’m going to the museum I’m on holiday
etc etc etc
I refused self catering holidays after the second one when I discovered it was no holiday for me

Yes that makes total sense actually. My ex's mum used to drive to collect his laundry and deliver it back. I guess I didn't think of that as I was brought up by a man and he was obsessively clean and neat.

I suppose you don't see what you don't need to see. They may see the dishes with their eyes but they don't see that they need to be done because subconsciously I suppose they see them and their brain goes 'they're there, but they won't be soon, so disregard them.'

OP you should read 'Wifework' by Susan Maushart and realise that you are not alone, and you are not the problem.
I know so many women in relationships like this, which is really depressing in 2022. Despite the fact that they are well educated, and have great careers (some of them earn more than their partners) it seems that many couples end up back in the 1950's in the home - responsible for 90% of childcare pickups, organising and cooking/ cleaning. And when they complain, the response from the men is usually 'get a cleaner'....which is basically pay another woman, usually a poorer woman to do it because I can't be bothered. I don't think men realise how unappealing this attitude is, and the resentment sets in over time.

And it's not just with kids, even one couple who don't have children are like this.
I'm sorry though, it sounds shit - you thought you were gaining a parter in life, and he thought he was gaining a skivvy.

Like previous posters said, if your husband went into work, and just sat on his arse not noticing (because he is bepenised, of course) tasks that need doing, or thinking that 40% work level is acceptable, and that his colleagues should pick up the slack, he'd be reprimanded or fired.

The thing is, as bad as the kids are, there is hope that they will grow up a bit and mature out of it, and we expect kids to be a bit more selfish anyway, but I think is is more jarring when your partner is like this, because you end up feeling like you have another child, not a husband. It's not a partnership is it?

As for what to do? In the short term, try and enjoy the holiday, do as little as possible for them and get some sort of break for yourself. In the longer term, maybe think about whether you want to live with this for the next few decades, because he won't change - why would he, it suits him to be like this. It's not surprising that more women instigate divorce than men, mostly because they are bloody fed up!

And as the for pillock mansplainer, patroniser extraordinaire, upthread who thinks that having a penis means you are exempt from basic adult responsibility - just fuck off!

We've been told that men just don't notice or don't care, but I don't think that's true. What seems to happen quite frequently with this particular type of guy, if the robonanny goes AWOL, is that they just parachute another woman in to do it. Might be a new partner, might be their mum, but they do seem to notice when they've got no dinner or clean pants. They just don't think it's their job to do anything about it.

After all, dudebro upthread is aware enough of it to come on here and tell us why it's not his responsibility.

Men don’t get out of doing domestic chores because they don’t care / don’t see the mess/ are bewildered etc. Many women don’t enjoy domestic chores Because we are women it doesn’t make us more naturally capable or desirous of doing all this stuff. It has to be done or the whole household will degenerate into chains and financial ruin. Members of a household need to work together as a team. There is no excuse whatsoever. Your family sound immensely frustrating OP.

Degenerate into chaos. But maybe chains would be a good thing while you swan off somewhere nice on your own

Help yourself OP.

Do NOT return any items.

Complete tech detox.

Your husband is shit and he's a shit father too.

Stop doing anything for him.

Don't tell him, just don't have time.

He's a waster but you are failing your children by tolerating it too.

Stop all lifts anywhere for your children.
Stop buying ANY treats junk food for the house.

That puts manners on my four very very quickly.

It's a mixture of pure trauma, disbelief and a big wake up call if the shop is delivered without an icecream, pringle, pizza, chocolate anything in there.😁

I just tell them I must have forgotten to add them.

Most effective combined with doing nothing for them.

Oh and let them pack for themselves.
If they forget stuff, tough.

Firm, calm, hard ball is what is required.
You shouldn't be doing their laundry either.
Leave it for them to see pile up.

You can be a part of the problem or a part of the solution.

you thought you were gaining a parter in life, and he thought he was gaining a skivvy.

Sadly, many women will recognise this.

Also true that he would not be bewildered by or not notice stuff needs doing at work.

You can be a part of the problem or a part of the solution

Love this!

Good luck OP.

I know you can’t afford to cancel the holiday but I was in a similar-ish position before a holiday 7 years ago and I just told DH I wasn’t going. And I meant it. He was very welcome to take the DC without me but I was staying at home, going away actually wasn’t worth the stress. The holiday rental money is spent now anyway, it doesn’t make any difference to that if you go or not.

It shocked him and things have been much better since.

And to the pp who said doing 7 loads of laundry doesn’t count - ffs.

Good for you OP. You're being treated like dirt.
I'd also feel properly fucked off by this too.

Please don't lift a finger on holiday. You need a holiday from all the cleaning!
Use the holiday to lower your standards. If the place ends up a shit hole, oh well, you're on holiday and it isn't your place.
No cups to have a drink? They wash one up. If they're thirsty enough they'll do it.

What about you going out for at least part of the day so you avoid the moaning?