What I've done vs what DH has done

[FuckMyActual]

I'm pissed off

Both have busy weeks, I'd argue mine is busier as I do 90% of the childcare but that's somewhat separate to this.

We are going on holiday, we have a house sitter coming to take care of the cats. Because I've been really poorly with a chest infection, things had gone to shit here. Anyway. The weekend, I say we need to get sorted.

Here's what I did vs what my husband did. Despite constantly telling him he needs to do his share!

Me

Washed, dried and folded 7 loads of laundry
All dishes
Scrubbed kitchen floor
Scrubbed worktops and cooker
Cleaned fridge, cleared freezer space for house sitter
Packed all kids clothes
Packed my clothes
Made all meals
Took dog to kennels
Did basic food shop
Cleaned bathrooms
Did all the chemical wizardry with the pool
Tidied the garden
Hoovered everywhere
Put away all toys
Dusted everywhere
Washed all bedding and replaced on beds
Took kids to various activities

*DH
*
Tidied the shoes at the bottom of the stairs
Put away his screwdrivers
Complained relentlessly that he can't see what needs doing like I do
Ignored very clear list of things he was provided with
Claimed headache and had a long nap
Claimed fatigue and had long bath
Played Xbox with kids

Oh- took a bag of rubbish out.

Hasn't packed his stuff, *Hasn't DONE ANYTHING ELSE AT ALL!!!
*

What the actual fuck?!? I am
Fuming and he is looking at me in sheer confusion that I'm so mad!!

Am I going mad here?? I wasn't being a martyr about it, we've got a whole human being coming to stay in our house and look after our animals. They need a welcoming space and not 10 days worth of mess because DH and kids decided that the correct thing to do was wait for me to get better instead of getting on and getting the fucking house cleaned! I was practically spitting blood at the end of the weekend, I actually said he can piss off if he expects me to lift a finger on holiday, he can do anything- ANYTHING that needs to be done. He said "ummmm..... okay? I really don't know what you're angry about but I guess it's something I've done?"

WELL DONE, EINSTEIN!!!

😡😭😭😡😡😭😡😡😡

op please tell us what you're saying to him, the words you are using, and what he says back. Things like I'm baffled, I'm wounded, are quite conversation-stopping. But IME the other person sometimes gives up at that point, saying to themselves well if they cared they would understand. But you're not giving him the chance fully to understand what you mean and why it's not acceptable and what you will do if he doesn't do it. You have to work out your consequence if he doesn't step up and hold to it.

Wounded, baffled, bewildered... it's all gaslighting, OP. Your DH is just being a lazy arse and trying to make you feel bad if you challenge him. My advice is leave the kids issue aside now - that's a tougher nut to crack - but visit all the consequences on DH from now on. Don't do a damn thing for him. Ask him what he's making for supper, etc. I found the stuck record technique really useful. Your DH's (and kids) strategy is simply to wear you down. Refuse to comply. Just keep repeating your entirely reasonable expectations over and over again.

Good luck.

May I offer a man’s perspective (I know it seems rare on this board!). Plus one question - are the kids all boys?

A lot of the things you list just don’t directly impact them (the husband + boys), and are things they just don’t care about. Cleaning the kitchen floor, the fridge, tidying the garden, cleaning the pool. Most men are happy living their lives in dirty surroundings and wouldn’t bother doing anything about it until it’s so dirty they themselves can’t stand it.

The laundry, food and activities you have a point in - but again like some other posters are saying, it seems you are also allowing them to take advantage of you a bit here? Though I do agree teenagers are gonna teenage.

I don’t have an answer for you and I do feel for you but just wanted to add my two cents that a lot of the resentment you are feeling comes from having all the expectations and not understanding that the men in your house clearly don’t care about any of these tasks in the first place, which is also why they don’t notice you doing it, or acknowledge/give you praise for doing so, or understand why you are getting angry when things are not being done. From their perspective, if a task they are given is not done and it’s not something they care about, then fine no issues because who cares about a dirty kitchen floor. But you of course disagree and can’t live like that so you feel compelled to clean and then feel resentment.

The other point I wanted to draw out as well is I don’t know any man who thinks ‘someone is visiting the house so I must make sure it’s clean’, or ‘we are going on holiday so the house must be clean before’. Again it’s the same point as above but just not the way we think, and it seems from all women in my life they are all of the opposite view here. But it does explain somewhat the different levels of engagement.

I’m not passing judgment on what is fair or normal and clearly you do a lot more than they do which is unfair on you! But I think it’s important in this thread to show the other side (and explain a little) which I see no one so far has offered.

FYI in my case I do care a bit more about having a tidy place so I probably do about 40% and I am lucky enough to be able to afford a regular cleaner who also tidies and sorts the washing which has eased my life significantly since I’ve been able to afford it.

@ML2

I take ot your parents raised you to believe that sexist shite?

Men aren't innately incapable of seeing mess and dirt. Having a lenis doesn't make you blind to it just like having a vagina doesn't make you magicically see it.

Men who don't care are taught not to. Mostly (annoyingly) by women who were very much taught to care

I bet your oh is so grateful you do 40 % and pay another woman to do most of that

🙄

Tell the children you are not doing their packing. In less than three years rhe oldwst will probably be holidaying with mates. They need to know how to pack.

Tell the children their laundry is now their responsibility.

When they ask 'what's for tea' say 'what are you making?' Or 'ask Dad'

‘May I offer a male perspective’, followed by misogynistic justification for an able bodied adult not pulling his weight in his own home.

@ML2 You are the precise person this post is about: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4612365-to-not-really-like-it-when-men-post-on-here?page=1&reply=119271692

Down to the tone, content, ‘male perspective’, and ‘two cents’. You are an actual MN stereotype. How does that make you feel?

You do need to make a real stance especially as your kids see this and may end up modelling the same behaviour which is what DH tried when we moved in together 26 years ago.

When DH and I were first together he absolutely tried to get away with doing a lot less. I remember the women at work all agreeing about having partners like this and saying well you just have to do it if you want it done. I remember thinking I would rather be alone.

I just flat out didn’t do stuff, his Mums birthday gift not bought? nothing to do with me. There was a fair bit of jostling about till it settled and he realised I was not going to be like his Mother. The first Christmas coming up he expected me to write his side of the families Christmas cards and I literally laughed in his face. His Mother had always packed FIL case for his many trips over seas for work, it was just not happening. Some of my sisters and some of my friends were kind of horrified about how difficult I was being. That’s the cult of being nice as a woman. A perfect example is a weekend away with my friend, she had cooked two dinners for her family for the two nights. DH asked what can I do about food? I said see that big white thing in the corner it’s called a fridge open it and there is food inside if there isn’t then you go to a shop and buy food and put it inside. He did not starve when I was away.

DS GF was brought up in a more traditional household. When she started staying over I told her to stop running about after DS all the time.

Just stop, the world will not fall off its axis, it will be harder because you have fallen in to a long term pattern. All patterns can be broken and reshaped some are just harder than others.

Geez @ML2 your penis must be HUGE if it obscures your vision so much you can't see dirt or mess. Thank God there's women to do it for you eh

OP - please tell me you’re not going on a self-catering holiday!

Agree entirely with this.
And if they still don't complete whatever task/chore they've been assigned then the consequences intensify.
You must follow through on the consequences.
Suggest starting small so you have room to intensify them.
Also suggest agreeing consequences for the kids with your husband. He needs to be on your side in terms of what they're expected to do and what the consequences for not completing will be.
Take care to ensure that the consequences will not inconvenience you!

Once you've got your husband to agree to actions and consequences for the kids, you can break the happy new to him that he's next!

My parents did have a more traditional family life yes. I do a lot more than my father does and try to find a balance that works for everyone. I’m just trying to offer a different perspective here and not get called names tbh.

The main point I’m making is one of different expectations. One person wants the house 100% clean; the other maybe wants it 40% clean. There is a conflict there and if the first person wants (or expects) the second to match her standards, aside from whether that is fair or not, she is going to get disappointed. That’s all I’m saying.

Don’t get me wrong there are lots and lots of men out there who do do 50/50 or more, but for everyone one of those guys there is one more traditional / primitive / whatever you want to call it guy out there like OP’s husband. I hope she can agree a good balance with him that works for both of them, but I don’t think will happen when the expectations are so different (and he clearly doesn’t care).

ML2 Do fuck off you misogynistic dinosaur.

Ah, the 'man's perspective' from @ML2 🙄 Where a man comes along to tell us we're all just so uptight, chill about having a dirty house, men and boys can't possibly be expected to clean because they don't think it's important.

Such utter, utter bollocks. If you wanted to live in a dirty house fuck off and live on your own. Decent humans of both sexes keep their house clean because it's grim not to. No-one wants to live like a grotty student in middle age.

I will be bringing my son up to do his fair share of the housework because that's the fair thing to do, and woe betide him if I catch him spouting such sexist crap when he's older.

@ML2 You might not care about the dirty kitchen, but do you care about your wife? And at what point does it go from being dirty to being unsanitary? And when exactly in that process do you start to care? Do you cate that when you get nick from holiday your wife will have even more laundry to do? Do you care that the pet sitter will spend all week in a dirty house? Do you think that someone who is coming to work for you will feel valued enough by that dirty house to come and sit for you again? Will it be you or your wife that arranges a new sitter for the nexy trip? At what point exactly do you start caring?

There are things I don't give a damn about, I couldn't care less what dh wears to work, or how he drinks his coffee. But he cares so I wash the shirts he wants and I make his coffee the way he likes it. He in turn makes sure that our bed has the blanket on that I like, even though he doesn't use it, and that my screenwash is topped up because I don't really like doing it.

We work together to parent our children, and run our home, because it belongs to us both, we both benefit from, and are both responsible for these things. If you bring your children up to think that they don't have to do domestic chores because they don't care, then you will raise entitled assholes who will end up destroying the mental health of their spouses as the OP has described. 'I don't care about... therefore I'm not going to do it' is a juvenile, self centred and crappy attitude to have.

I’m not all men, hth.

Why am I misogynistic for saying that I don’t care about cleaning, my OH does, and we found a middle ground that works for both of us? I don’t really see the angry and demanding approach working for OP.

Who cleaned up the yoghurt?

You shorten the time!

My hot wash is 1 hr 03 and that's the longest one I do. The others are around 50 minutes

@Adversity

Unfortunately the 'cult of being a nice woman ' is still very prevelant.

I have one friend in particular who is very much a member of the cult

She was horrified I didn't pack for the kids or dh. Horrified I didn't iron their clothes

Can't believe ds and dh are capable of seeing what needs to be done without instruction

Felt sorry for a dad who brought his dd to a bday party

I could actually punch her sometimes lol

Turn the wifi off. Unplug it and hide it

But these guys do nothing and if and when the woman puts her foot down and chucks them out they do even less. One day out every two weeks. Zero housework ever.

They need classes talking about responsibility and house maintenance as well as loyalty from. A young age. When men were sole earners they could get aways with this more, now we all earn, they can’t. I noticed the DM. had a piece about the skills mismatch in dating- women won’t put up with men who do nothing anymore!

@ML2

I didnt call you names

The different standards point I kind of agree with but not the rest of the sexist shite

There has to be a minimum standard everyone adheres too

Men don't get a free pass cause they have a penis

+1, agree with your post entirely. I also make the bed and put the stupid blanket on it because I know she cares about it, even though I don’t. And there’s indeed many examples of things we both do for each other, and I agree that’s what having a healthy relationship is about. I also completely agree that just because it’s not something you care about doesn’t mean you can ignore it, as you all live together - but in the stubborn, more ignorant cases like OP’s husband/kids, it’s probably relevant to know why they are doing this (she seems to have no idea).

Personally for me I like having a clean kitchen top (because I eat food off of it) but a floor I don’t care that much about. But I would clean it just randomly if it was visibly dirty yes.

The point I was making more was that people have different levels of expectations and that OP is setting herself up for disappointment. Now I know you will say that lowering her expectations is not the answer either - she wants a clean house. I agree with that. She needs to find a way of explaining to her husband (and kids) that the way they are acting makes her feel like they don’t care about her and that they are all living in one house together so need to agree on something that works. But also, clearly they don’t care (to a much stronger degree than me) about these things in the first place so remembering that would probably help in those discussions.

They need classes talking about responsibility and house maintenance as well as loyalty from. A young age
Sorry but this really does fall into things we should learn at home. Boys dont need "don't be a dickhead" classes as tho that's the simple default if left to themselves. DH was raised in the 70s / 80s. He works, I don't. He gets up and does bfast most mornings, tidies, does washing, looks after his kids, cooks, washes up. He was just raised to be equal not superior to his mother.

Thanks, yes I agree it may be a bit sexist to use these generalisations, so sorry that was not my intention. I’m a little more traditional by background so wanted to say that those generalisations do still exist in real life.

Agree there’s no such thing as a free pass to living together and sharing responsibilities. But again there are different expectations, eg maybe the pool only needs cleaning once a month but she prefers it once a week, is it reasonable if he objects to that frequency? Etc etc.

If you still go away (and to be honest, I don't think I would. I'd stay home on my own), when you come back you MUST go on strike.

Your washing, shopping, cooking, washing up gets done. Possibly also for the 7 year old.

When the teenagers question this, refer them to their father.
When he questions this, just look at him then walk away/carry on with what you're doing.

They know what they need to do.

Alternatively, divorce him