DH using toilet for DT’s when out

[Silverbirch123]

I have NC for this but I’m a regular poster

We have 3 year old twin girls. If we’re out (or he takes them out on his own) for the day and my DH has to take one (or both) of our girls to the toilet he’s started using the ladies (not always just sometimes)

The reason he says for this is that the mens toilets are usually really grotty. He went somewhere a couple of weeks ago where there was only 1 cubicle, and several men using the urinals. He pushed the door open and there was a guy sitting on the toilet who hadn’t locked the door 🤮

He immediately came out and used the ladies. No one has ever said anything to him but I’ve suggested that in those circumstances he uses the disabled, but that’s not always possible if you need a special key to open them.

i darent post this in AIBU but given the circumstances above would you DH’s do the same? I’m keen for my DH not to cause offence by using the ladies but I’m also keen for my DD’s not being subjected to filthy toilets and grown men not shutting the doors when they’re having a poo 💩

Well you're wrong about disabled planning. Door widths, plug heights are just two examples. However, where studies have shown that a much higher percentage of parents with pushchairs and various children will far exceed wheelchair users it's common sense to allocate baby changing facilities in them.

They've taken the same pragmatic approach in schools with toilets for LGTBQ users they can use the disabled toilets.

It wouldn’t bother me personally but I don’t think he should go into the ladies’ in case there is a Muslim woman adjusting her hijab or something.
I would say default go in the men’s, if they are unsuitable then disabled and explain that you can’t go in the men’s if you need to ask for a radar key.

Can't have women as support humans for men, can you but disabled people? They have to facilitate everybody.

Jeez. Totally agree this is batshit.
If anyone is caused emotional / religious / traumatic offence by seeing a bloke with two little girls trying to go for a wee with them in the ladies they need to get a bloody grip.
Definitely need more unisex toilets to solve the problem but in the meantime try to see a dad out with his daughters rather than a predator out to get off on a sanitary towel bin or whatever you think they're up to.

It sounds like this is more about his daughters’ comfort than his own convenience to me.

My husband would never do this. He respects women.

Well as an adult with man I wouldn't.

You don't get to decide men can comes into women's toilets.

Tell him to take wipes with him.

Men should campaign for family toilets if the men's loos are too disgusting. They're the ones with all the power in the world - why haven't they fixed this problem?

Depends where he is. While mens loo's often get a pasting for being awful DH says other than pubs and some grotty places they're usually ok but basic. It is a problem with men and girls, we had twin girls so experienced this exact problem.

So much for fucking feminism when men can use women’s toilets.

I really feel for men when they are out with their young kids - most mens loos don't have baby changing facilities (I know your kids aren't babies but they will have been once) and some disabled ones don't neither. I think in this situation my husband would use the disabled loo and take our daughter in there - he wouldn't go into the ladies but neither would he subject her to a manky loo paddling through wee and watching a man have a poo with the door open.

Would this be a public council run building??

Adult woman, not adult with man!

Yep. Women have the right to privacy from adult men. Men do not have the same need of or right to privacy from little girls.

Exactly!

I think the emotion around trans people in female spaces (quite rightly) is clouding pragmatism for ordinary dads looking after their girls when town planners and restaurants etc. have done a poor job catering for them

Having children doesn't render a man any more safe or respectful than any other man. We need to stop acting as if being a father exempts men from social rules/norms.

Why aren't men writing akd emailing? The men on the boards/town planners are likely dads themselves. They should get it no?

They don't do this because they know they can either just palm it off on the wife/girlfriend or use their kids to push themselves into places they dont belong.

It is disgusting to violate women's spaces.

It doesn't matter what your husband is doing! By going in at all he sets a precedent that it's okay for men to be in women's toilets. The next man (who now feels at liberty to go in, on the back of your DH and others) may be a pervert. This is why no men should go in ever. Also it's not my problem that men's bogs are disgusting. It's up to men to clean them or complain and get them sorted. How the hell do mens dirty toilets mean women should accommodate?

The privacy issue is a red herring. Little children don't have the same expectations as to privacy as grown adults. Neither are grown adults entitled to privacy from little children. For example, women and girls have an expectation to privacy from grown men, but not young boys, which is why it is ok for the latter to be in women's toilets and changing-rooms. It is not ok for grown men to invade women's single sex spaces and vice versa. Would it be ok for me to take my 4yo boy into the men's changing-room so he didn't have to see women getting changed? Of course not.

As to the disgusting state of men's toilets, that is a whole other issue and for men to sort out not for women to accommodate. And, quite frankly, if little girls shouldn't have to put up with it, I don't think little boys should either. Yet clearly a dad taking his son into the women's toilets is absurd.

If the toilets are a state, tell your husband to complain to the management and vote with his feet by giving wherever he is a miss in future.

No he shouldn't be in the ladies.

He needs to ask the "gentlemen" in the mens toilets to shut the door as he has young children with him and take a pack of wipes if needed. Complain to the venue whenever toilets are grotty. It is up to men to resolve the issue with their toilet facilities. Women would complain if it their toilets were in that state.

This. If the mens toilets are so grotty he can take wipes in with him, or campaign for cleaner toilets with better facilities for men with kids or unisex loos, like women and disabled people had to rather than jumping on their hardwork and then pissing all over it (literally!)

If everyone who just "doesn't like" using the normal toilets gets a radar key they will become as busy and filthy as the normal toilets- meaning disabled people who campaigned for years for said toilets will be even more disadvantaged.

No he should not be using women's loos. There are many reasons why women and girls should not be subjected to this.

• Some women and girls have had sexual abuse. To be confronted by a male in an enclosed space would be triggering to them.

• Many women from different religious backgrounds eg Muslim or Orthodox Jewish cannot use single sex loos. They might use the loo to adjust their hijab or to perform wudu. This cannot be done in front of males.

• Having males in loos increases the amount of abuse. Just because a man is a father, doesn't mean he's not also a sex offender. Cases like this show men, fathers place spy hole cameras in womens loos to secretly film them. I'm not suggesting for a minute that your DH is a sex offender. But unfortunately, sex offenders don't come with identity tags either, and some of them use the excuse of being a father to access such places so they can film women and children. There is only one way we can protect women and children from such crimes and that is to keep men out of such places.

wjla.com/amp/news/local/police-father-hides-pinhole-spy-camera-in-bathroom-of-silver-spring-gymnastics-center

No problem with him using womens toilets - I think its polite to shout - just as a male cleaner would - to announce hes coming in and if thats ok.

IMO this is why we need more neutral bathrooms with their own sinks inside.

His convenience will always come before women's discomfort
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That’s not acceptable imo. Men have no place in woman's toilets.

These are both good points. Men should be getting off their collective arses and ensuring that all male toilets are always suitable for men with young female children in tow. By figuring out ways around it, we've already accepted the premise that men shouldn't be responsible for the care of their own children.

Perhaps family toilets are the compromise way forward. Perhaps individual stalls. But at no time should the default solution be that men must come into the women's bathroom.

Men, get on with sorting out your behaviour and your toilet facilities. Women, if you stop having sex/children with abusive loutish men, their type will soon die out.

This.

The privacy issue is a red herring

In which case, what’s the real issue?.