Dd has rejected her Baby

[dalmatianmad]

Really need some help and advice please!

My Dd gave birth to my beautiful dgs 9 months ago. Unfortunately the relationship with her dh broke down soon after. He has moved out but he has dgs weekly. He's always been a good dad. Very involved, ds is his priority.
Dd is very volatile.

Dd went back to work when dgs was 8 weeks old. I care for him for 3 days every week, I've changed my shift pattern to look after him, I work full time as a Nurse.

Dd barely has dgs. She finds every excuse possible for me or her ex to have him. She's just been away on Holiday for 1 week on her own, ex and myself have shared the childcare.

She's finally admitted she's struggling. Doesn't want to be a Mum anymore, states she doesn't enjoy any of it, states "this isn't what I signed up for".
Has kicked off at me because I've said I can't have him this weekend (I'm at work).
She's been crying on the phone to her ex tonight saying she doesn't want her ds.

Ex has rang me, wants us to meet tomorrow. Has suggested I apply for a court order and we have dgs 50/50. He says he can't have him full time because he needs to work and his boss won't be accommodating enough.

What the fuck do I do?

I'm heartbroken that she doesn't want him. He's the most settled/happy baby.
I would happily have him but is this the right thing?

Please no negative comments or judgements. I need advice.

Agree with this. DD should be helped as much as possible to be able to parent her child, and it sounds like she needs and deserves a lot of help and support. A social worker is definitely needed. Input from specialists. A lot of resources.

I completely agree! Both in RL and on here an astonishing number of people have absolutely no idea what living in poverty means.

And in the middle of a cost of living crisis ( well probably just at the beginning) with soaring energy, food and petrol costs with every sign that things are heading to get even worse and winter coming, encouraging someone to give up work and go on benefits is particularly idiotic.

I was addressing other PPs comments regarding why people aren't cross or shocked at the mum, but are saying that the dad needs to do more.

My point was that mothers who abandon children happens quite rarely in comparison to the many fathers who abandon their children. Therefore there is a lot of negative reaction towards mothers who do so.

I also pointed out that I think when mothers that go on to abandon thier babies, who were otherwise wanted children etc like in this case, there is usually an underlying reason rather than that they are feckless parents. Conversely the large majority of fathers who opt out of parenthood are usually feckless parents and society is fairly accepting of that. It goes to show in my mind how women are unfairly treated by society - again.

I do think it's different actually, the mother in this situation most likely does have PND and as the OP said, she suffered a brain injury which has left her markedly changed. This paints a picture to me of a mother in need of real MH and medical support on top of the support from her DM.

I agree that the father needs support and help as well in my first post on this thread. I actually agree with some PPs who said if there is a marital home the DD is still living in that the father should be living there with the DS. He should also have access to support too and the DGM would be a real help here - as she has been.

I do think that the father needs to make some life adjustments. I agree with you that he probably has his own issues that he needs help with. Getting out from under his dysfunctional family should be a priority. At some point as adults from dysfunctional families (which he is), we need to break the cycle, however that looks for each individual. Continuing to live with a dysfunctional family is just going to perpetuate things.

He does need to look at his working life and ask himself some questions. He is now a single parent, does he need to cut his hours? Does he need to change jobs? How could he set himself up best in order to find some sort of balance that works for him, where he is working and earning money whilst also caring for his son. He needs to be proactive, if he opts out too it all seems to fall to the OP.

It may be that, similar to my friend's situation, if the DD gets the appropriate help and support that she may be able to get back on her feet and be a responsible parent. That won't happen if she wont engage with the help and it won't be made any easier if people write her off as just not caring. It would be helpful if the OP could reframe it in her mind. Instead of her DD going galivanting and sleeping around, she could see it as her DD is on a self destructive downward spiral due to her BI, MH and breakdown of her marriage and that the DD needs immediate help.

Honestly I can't wrap my head around how anyone hearing "brain injury followed by the breakdown of a marriage which lead to abandoning her baby" doesn't see this as a serious MH crisis, and instead are looking at it as a woman who fully knowing what she is doing, and in full control of her self has just abandoned her baby to live life large.

@MightbeMaybe

People understand perfectly well she had a brain injury (in the past). They understand she probably has serious mental health problems as you would expect from someon who doesn’t want their child.

But the father is the priority because the baby is the priority and he is the best placed to care for that. I don’t know how stable or otherwise this father is himself - but right now empathy and support for him from OP and others (and OP also deserves emotional support which unfortunately she is unlikely to get fully unless from friends) is more important than the daughter because his immediate situation affects the baby and the rest of its life. The baby’s mother doesn’t want it, so she’s not a priority, she will still likely feel the same way months from now, perhaps not, but this situation needs sorting well before months from now.

And the father IS trying to sort the situation - he has suggested something to OP which he thought a good idea at the time, if she says no there is no reason to think he’s just going to give up. But at the same time it’s not as unreasonable as people are saying - if the baby was with it’s mother and OP was doing the majority of the caring (as often happens) there would be far more sympathy.

The truth is that the mother probably does have mental issues - the truth is also that she may never solve those issues in order to be a responsible parent. In fact it’s likely she won’t and the boys father will have to do the best he can and hopefully GM will play a part in babies life (which is far less likely if she cuts down time with him). Also given her daughter doesn’t want custody - it would be highly unlikely imo that if the father gets full custody she will see much of her GS in future - it’s hard to imagine that happening unless it is legally arranged. How many people go on to see their grandparent who is the parent of a parent who abounded them much? Not many Id wager. That’s something else to factor in when GM makes the decision.

It shouldn’t be hard to understand that the young man deserves some empathy and understanding both for his and his child’s sake (since the two are intertwined) and giving it to him doesn’t mean we’re saying he’s a perfect saint and model man in all ways. At least it’s not hard for people who are capable of empathy toward men to understand.

@Tamzina I'm really not sure why you keep @'ing me and talking about the father needing support and empathy, I haven't disagreed on that point at all.

I agree absolutely, he does need support and empathy, I'm sure he's not having much fun in this situation either. Not once have I said anything that could be taken otherwise I don't think.

I also think it's clear from both what I've written regarding the OP's situation and my anecdote about how it turned out for a friend in a similar position that I am not incapable of empathy towards men.

Where I agree with other PPs is that this is a married adult, just because he is male a lot of PPs have been writing responses that seem to absolve him of a lot of responsibility. Which leaves the whole situation firmly on the OPs doorstep. Just because he is male doesn't mean he is incapable of managing to do this. No one is saying it's easy but we as a society shouldn't be infantilizing men and allowing them to opt out of parenting.

I don't know what your point regarding the DC not having relationships with the GPs on the abandoning parent's side has to do with this situation.
I think that's down to the relationship between the resident parent and the GPs. If the relationship barely exists in the first place or there was some major fall out down the line yes, but it sounds in this case like the OP and her SIL get on well together, so I don't see why that relationship wouldn't that continue on in the same vein?

I'm a little concerned @dalmatianmad how you write about your DD, it's all very negative and doesn't seem as though you (are you a nurse? Sorry I can't remember) really understand why she is behaving like she is and don't seem to attribute it to MH and BI. Unless there's a big drip feed I missed where this is a pattern of behaviour going back for years prior to the BI and marriage breakdown I don't understand why this doesn't present to you as a crisis.
Like I said in my first post it doesn't sound like you like your DD very much and instead are treating your SIL as the golden boy.

To clarify that statement, I could absolutely understand frustration and some resentment about the situation. That makes sense and would be nothing but human. This feels like you think she is doing it deliberately, which is quite different.
While it's fantastic that you are so supportive of your SIL I also think you need to be careful not to pander to him because he is a man. Some women do this, we all know that. I am not saying you are one of them! He needs to have support and your help of course, but he also needs the help and space as an adult, and father, to do as much of it himself as possible. Let him be a father is what I'm getting at, don't just do it for him. It does no one any favours short or long term. Again I am not saying that's what you are doing.

If he gave up work to become the main carer for a 9 month old baby then he would qualify for unoversal credit. Likewise if he became the main cater and stayed in work if he is in a low wage he would be entitled to universal credit and also the childcare element.

Plus what the mother would have to pay him, OP said she is working. He probably hasn't got a clue about it all so maybe will need a bit of guidance to get it sorted.

And that is a shame but you can't expect a baby to make allowances for that. The mother almost certainly needs help but that baby needs to be safe and with people who love him.

He's a young man, low earner, no home, living with parents who probably won't be supportive. He probably wants security for his son and thinks this is the best way to get it.

Absolutely. All the posters who've focused on the mother needing support, seem to have not thought about the child at all. I dread to think what the baby's experience when with his mother, has been like.

Whatever help DD needs, she's not going to turn into even an adequate mother any time soon.
In the short term, it's the parent who wants the baby who needs most support, so that the chid has some security.

And do you realise that 25% of all deaths of women in the first year after giving birth are due to suicide?

So no, you don’t just abandon a post natal woman who’s husband fucked off a few weeks after she gave birth, especially when she already has a brain injury.

The ignorance is fucking astounding.

Key maternal mental health findings
Mental health remains one of the leading causes of maternal death during pregnancy and the first postnatal year:[1]

Maternal suicide is still the leading cause of direct (pregnancy-related) death in the year after pregnancy.
Almost a quarter of all deaths of women during pregnancy or up to a year after the end of pregnancy were from mental health-related causes.
Assessors felt that improvements in care might have made a difference in outcome for 67% of women who died by suicide.

from maternal mental health alliance

I don't think anyone is saying she shouldn't have support but the baby needs to be in a secure place. Sometimes babies have to be taken away from mothers who want them for their own sake but in this case the mother doesn't want the baby, maybe we should listen to her.

How do you know he's fucked off? The OP said their relationship broke down, might have been the mother's choice not the fathers. Anyway he hasn't disappeared, he has been doing almost 50% of the child care.

Any statistics about how the babies fare?

Why can't everyone be looked after according to their needs?

Obviously the baby is the priority.

Why do people keep suggesting she needs support. She has a huge amount of support. One day a week with your own child? She's hardly going it alone. She cannot seem to manage the barest amount of parenting even with her mum and ex taking on 90% of the load.

Do they not mean mental health support? Rather than more childcare?

Yes medical, MH, social work etc

And would you like to try and shame women who experience post natal depression/psychosis any more than you already are?

Would you like a long term study on how fucked up children are by something entirely out of their mothers control?

Don’t be dense - we mean medical support.

She may well not have PND, but the vast majority of women who say they haven’t bonded with their baby do have PND and it is the leading cause of maternal mortality

There’s a vanishingly small chance that she doesn’t have PND, and just doesn’t enjoy or want to be a mother. Plenty of men find that out once they’ve become parents, society doesn’t give a crap about that though.

And yes, he did fuck off. He left the marriage. Have you had a baby? Do you not remember how horrendous those first few weeks are, mentally and emotionally? Do you think an added trauma like a seemingly happy husband who wanted a baby leaving might, you know, fuck someone up a tad, regardless of them still seeing the baby or not?

YYY @YellowPlumbob - a huge amount of ignorance.

And judgement of this young woman who has been abandoned by a man her mother clearly thinks of as a prince among men.

Man leaves mother of his child when she most needs to feel valued and supported. He has the baby when it's convenient for him, interfering with the bonding between mother and child, stressing the mother because it's instinctive to worry about your baby when she's not with you. Man gets a medal, woman struggles and gets kicked when she's down. Previous brain injury mentioned in passing...

Double standards hurt women. They make mothering so much harder than it should be. They create immense mental health problems.

🙌🏻

Exactly. I’m certain she handed the newborn over to the ex thinking that if she played nice, he would come back, and they’d be a happy family again.

It’s a scenario I’ve seen a few times, and it never ends well. Each time - severe PND, two serious and almost successful suicide attempts, and twice it came out that the ex was actually a controlling, abusive piece of shit.

You’re busy 🙌 each other coming up with all sorts of assumptions that don’t really match anything the Op has said.

For all you know she might have ended the relationship. Op states in the first post DD is volatile. She palms her baby off on her mum at every opportunity when she is meant to be looking after him and uses emotional blackmail when OP can’t look after him due to work (Op has already moved her shifts to accommodate childcare). And her Ex doing 3 nights childcare is him trying to disrupt the mother child bond? Wtf was she doing when she fucked off on her holiday for a week? Improving it? Do me a favour! It’s her baby that is the priority here, in case you have forgotten, and the baby needs to be protected from a mother who is indifferent and volatile.

I agree there's a lot of wild speculation going on about the break up circumstances.

The father might not be a bad guy, some of the speculation is veering into weird territory I think.