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Ukraine Invasion: Part 28

1000 replies

MagicFox · 24/06/2022 11:38

Thread 28 begins, thanks all for the company and resources

OP posts:
Thread gallery
74
PerkingFaintly · 01/07/2022 22:59

Yep, standard settler colonialism:
Step 1: settle your nation's civilians in the country you have invaded;
Step 2: throw up your hands in faux horror at the "barbarism" of nationals of the invaded country if they in any way mistreat your planted nationals.

Ijsbear · 01/07/2022 23:39

The Russian occupiers are moving their families into homes in Kherson

ScrollingLeaves · 02/07/2022 00:05

@Ijsbear · Today 23:39
The Russian occupiers are moving their families into homes in Kherson

Russian soldiers are remaining in Kherson and their girlfriends and wives and children, or parents, are leaving their homes and jobs and migrating there from Russia?
Are they being given incentives?

Apparently hundreds and hundreds of bodies are appearing from the rubble in Mariupol. I saw an estimate of 21,000 killed there. Imagine moving into new housing almost literally laid on foundations covering murdered people.

SEJ1789 · 02/07/2022 06:10

The thing is they clearly don’t give two S#%ts either about moving in on top of murdered people. They can see what destruction there has been in the cities, they are there with their own eyes, they will be able to smell death and see bodies off civilians women, the elderly etc, then they are happily taking up residence there, where they can see peoples lives have been ripped apart. Think it makes them equal to those who destroyed it in the first place if they are moving over from Russia.

MagicFox · 02/07/2022 07:23

Would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this article from the other perspective re relations with Russia: thecradle.co/Article/Columns/12393

Spoiler:
"BRICS stand for de facto multilateralism; focus on global development; cooperation for economic recovery; and improving global governance.
The US-concocted racket on the other hand, stands for Cold War mentality; exploiting developing countries; ganging up to contain China; and an America-first policy that enshrines the monopolistic “rules-based international order."

OP posts:
notimagain · 02/07/2022 07:50

Given it's origin and the contributors it's not really surprising that the publication is going to champion the BRICS and maybe have an anti-colonial POV....

thecradle.co/Article/columns/212

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 02/07/2022 08:44

And this is what I was worrying about a few pages back. They did this in Crimea and they annexed it 8 years ago! I just don't see how Ukraine will get all of that south coast back. All is Ukraine, most definitely, but how do you liberate places like Mariupol and Kherson whilst also defending Kharkiv and Odessa?

@Rabbitholedigger agree.

Hillsmakeyoustrong · 02/07/2022 09:13

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/01/the-informal-volunteer-groups-leading-ukraines-aid-effort

This is exactly why me and @Ijsbear support the volunteers on the ground directly. Ukrainian people are shouldering this burden with little to no help from the big charities.

Ijsbear · 02/07/2022 10:11

^Russian soldiers are remaining in Kherson and their girlfriends and wives and children, or parents, are leaving their homes and jobs and migrating there from Russia?
Are they being given incentives?^

I don't know the details, don't like to ask too much of our temporary guests, the severe worry and stress is not far from the surface. The lady can't sleep well for replaying war in her sleep. They just said 'soldiers' families are being moved in'

ScrollingLeaves · 02/07/2022 10:51

@MagicFox · Today 07:23
Would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this article from the other perspective re relations with Russia: thecradle.co/Article/Columns/12393

Thank you for that. I am not analytical enough or well informed enough to make any valuable comment. In a general way it is entirely reasonable to say that BRIC countries are important countries, that they led by Russia and China have such an major part to play in world well that the US/EU trying separate off China and Russia is making the US/EU look pathetic.

But then the rhetoric of the article (UKraine a stump

I looked up what the Cradlle is championing.
It is because they start with the correct fundamentals: rock-solid alliances based on common objectives; smart diplomacy; leading with soft power but prepared to use the hard kind;

In light of the Cradle article you posted is:
Soft power like propaganda? Hard kind like invading a country, torturing and raping? Imprisoning and sterilising Uighurs?

from the Tin Cradle article you posted:
In Bavaria, Scholz pushed for a Marshall Plan for Ukraine – a ludicrous concept considering Kiev and its environs might as well be reduced to a puny rump state by the end of 2022

Why the use of passive terms? By which agency will it have been reduced?

It would be futile to expect from the astonishing collection of mediocrities “united” in Bavaria, under de facto leader of the European Commission (EC), Fuehrer Ursula von der Leyen, any substantial analysis about the breakdown of global supply chains and the reasons that forced Moscow to reduce gas flows to Europe. Instead, they blamed Putin and Xi.

This is Putinesque Russian propaganda rhetoric and it goes on in that vein.

I think that in some ways the points of view in the article - related to the importance of the rest of the world and the BRIC countries being essential to the working of the whole; US dominated Europe not being able to stand alone; and the engine of Europe not working smoothly - may all be true.

It may even be true that the sanctions against Russia will back fire.

But, all told, Europe’s values at their best, are worth fighting for and these values are not shared by Russia and China.

MagicFox · 02/07/2022 10:52

Great response @ScrollingLeaves

OP posts:
Ijsbear · 02/07/2022 10:52

ISW Key Takeaways

Russian forces continued efforts to encircle Lysychansk and conducted offensive operations to the south and southwest of the city.

Russian forces have likely not yet reached the T1302 Bakhmut-Lysychansk highway on the ground but are denying Ukrainian forces use of it by continuing artillery and airstrikes against remaining Ukrainian positions along the road.

Russian forces focused on regrouping and improving their tactical positions north of Slovyansk.

Russian forces did not conduct any confirmed ground assaults in northern Kharkiv Oblast and continued shelling Ukrainian positions north of Kharkiv City.

Russian forces conducted artillery and missile strikes along the Southern Axis.

The authorities of the Russian Federation continue to work to expand the reserve of conscripts available to participate in hostilities on the territory of Ukraine.

--

The economy is being slowly moved to a war footing

The Kremlin is likely setting conditions for crypto-mobilization of the Russian economy in preparation for a protracted war in Ukraine. The Kremlin proposed an amendment to federal laws on Russian Armed Forces supply matters to the Russian State Duma on June 30, that would introduce “special measures in the economic sphere” obliging Russian businesses (regardless of ownership) to supply Russian special military and counterterrorist operations.[1] The amendment would prohibit Russian businesses from refusing to accept state orders for special military operations and allow the Kremlin to change employee contracts and work conditions, such as forcing workers to work during the night or federal holidays. The Kremlin noted in the amendment’s description that the ongoing special military operation in Ukraine exposed supply shortages, specifically materials needed to repair military equipment, and stated that Russian officials need to “concentrate their efforts in certain sectors of the economy." Russian President Vladimir Putin is likely mobilizing the Russian economy and industry to sustain the ongoing war effort, but has not yet taken parallel measures to mobilize Russian manpower on a large scale.

+++

UkraineNOW

Revenge attacks in Odessa are killing and wounding in the region of 60 in the last couple days (my paraphrasing)

📌 Russia has announced its withdrawal from the eight partial and extended partial agreements of the Council of Europe

In particular, Russia withdraws from:
▫️ Groups for cooperation in the fight against drug addiction and illicit trafficking;
▫️ European Commission for Democracy through Law;
▫️ European Film Production Support Fund;
▫️ Observatories for teaching history in Europe.

⚔️ The armed forces are successfully using new weapons supplied by the United States. They also mastered the MLRS HIMARS to defeat Russian command posts.

Reports from a freed prisoner that the conditions they are being kept in are dreadful, plus torture.

📍 Meanwhile, mass anti-government protests began in some countries

❗️ 3 large landing ships were added to the two enemy missile ships in the northwestern part of the Black Sea
This is reported by the Operational Command "Pivden."
“2 enemy missile ships in the northwestern part of the Black Sea continue to carry on board the threat of more than a dozen cruise missiles. For weightiness, 3 large landing ships were added to them. Not feeling protected, they keep at a maximum safe distance from the coast of Ukraine."

+++

Commander: Russia launches phosphorous bombs on Snake Island. [I really think that the Ukr forces going there would be a really bad idea]

⚡️ CNN: US believes Russia does not have sufficient forces to control Kherson Oblast.
U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said the Kremlin “faces rising partisan activity in southern Ukraine,” which may serve as a growing challenge to Russia’s attempts to control temporarily occupied regions.
Another U.S. official said Russia likely does not have sufficient forces in Kherson Oblast, especially considering its dedication of troops to Donbas.

⚡️ General Staff: Russian forces on defensive near Sloviansk, continue to shell towards Kramatorsk.

⚡️35 countries demand to suspend Russia's, Belarus' membership in international sports organizations.

⚡️Poland's Gdansk names city square near Russian consulate 'Plaza of Heroic Mariupol.'

ScrollingLeaves · 02/07/2022 10:56

@Ijsbear · Today 10:11
^Russian soldiers are remaining in Kherson and their girlfriends and wives and children, or parents, are leaving their homes and jobs and migrating there from Russia?
Are they being given incentives?^

I don't know the details, don't like to ask too much of our temporary guests, the severe worry and stress is not far from the surface. The lady can't sleep well for replaying war in her sleep. They just said 'soldiers' families are being moved in'

That is awful, Ijsbear. I am sorry, I had forgotten you have a Ukrainian guest. Of course I didn’t mean to press you.

@Hillsmakeyoustrong youstrong · Today 09:13
www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/01/the-informal-volunteer-groups-leading-ukraines-aid-effort

Thank you for that, Hills.

Ijsbear · 02/07/2022 11:14

House is bleedin' full atm. 1 englishwoman, 2 dutch kids, 5 ukrainians and a german, 1 cat and one ukrainian dog.

It's all working rather well too, slightly to my surprise. one of the 2 families will be travelling to England when the visas FINALLY come through

Ijsbear · 02/07/2022 11:15

Oh and one of the kids is autistic and the other gifted and has a lot of ASD traits.

It's a lively place.

Ijsbear · 02/07/2022 11:29

The Ukrainian volunteer Twitter account has been disabled, there was mounting evidence that he was a total fake. It's a pity as he actually seemed to get access to some info early.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2022 11:51

Ijsbear · 02/07/2022 11:14

House is bleedin' full atm. 1 englishwoman, 2 dutch kids, 5 ukrainians and a german, 1 cat and one ukrainian dog.

It's all working rather well too, slightly to my surprise. one of the 2 families will be travelling to England when the visas FINALLY come through

I very much hope it continues that way for you and the visas come through soon!

MagicFox · 02/07/2022 12:42

Interesting.

"Second professor from Novosibirsk in just one week is detained and shipped to Moscow under the suspicion of treason. Both Maslov and Kolker are suspected of working for China."

twitter.com/abarbashin/status/1543172527576547329?s=21&t=xLwQnHnYaFPa3hHdu5zRNQ

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 02/07/2022 12:43

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1543196214929330176

Rob Lee AT RALee85
The Russian MoD released a video of Chief of the General Staff Gerasimov visiting the leadership of Russia’s operation in Ukraine, including VDV Commander Colonel-General Mikhail Teplinsky.

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2022 12:43

Replies to this post say the metadata is from May!

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 02/07/2022 13:18

RedToothBrush · 02/07/2022 12:43

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1543196214929330176

Rob Lee AT RALee85
The Russian MoD released a video of Chief of the General Staff Gerasimov visiting the leadership of Russia’s operation in Ukraine, including VDV Commander Colonel-General Mikhail Teplinsky.

The link says "this page doesn't exist" even when I try to copy-and-paste without the [[ at the beginning.

Igotjelly · 02/07/2022 16:01

The Russians have reportedly blown up their own landing craft in the Black Sea.

blueshoes · 02/07/2022 17:03

Igotjelly · 02/07/2022 16:01

The Russians have reportedly blown up their own landing craft in the Black Sea.

@Igotjelly , thanks for the lead.

Apparently a landing craft of the Russian Black Sea Fleet D-106 was blown up after hitting one of Russia's own sea mines near Mariupol

Russia says the crew survived but it is another humiliation for Russia.

I have a question for others in the know: how does a military naval vessel avoid going into one of its own mines? Tried googling but could not find the answer.

Tillsforthrills · 02/07/2022 17:17

Igotjelly · 02/07/2022 16:01

The Russians have reportedly blown up their own landing craft in the Black Sea.

Excellent news that is!

notimagain · 02/07/2022 17:20

blueshoes · 02/07/2022 17:03

@Igotjelly , thanks for the lead.

Apparently a landing craft of the Russian Black Sea Fleet D-106 was blown up after hitting one of Russia's own sea mines near Mariupol

Russia says the crew survived but it is another humiliation for Russia.

I have a question for others in the know: how does a military naval vessel avoid going into one of its own mines? Tried googling but could not find the answer.

I think the very basic idea is if mines are sown by your side the mines are tethered in areas known to you, so you avoid those mined areas and only sail in safe areas/through safe lanes.

Problems start if the mined areas aren't mapped correctly, if you can't navigate properly, or if as supposedly sometimes happens a mine breaks free from it's tether and starts drifting out of the marked area.

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