Page 26 | Boris and his fines part 4

Roussette · 2022-05-07T17:39:59+00:00

Previous thread. More to come on the subject matter [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4536641-boris-has-been-fined-part-3?reply=117100091]]

jgw1 · 15/05/2022 17:06

Roussette · 15/05/2022 17:00

I agee. But I do wonder what it would take for Tory voters to see the light. No, I don't want to hear about a credible opposition because we've sunk so low now, any opposition could do better than this lot we're saddled with.

There are certain shadow ministers who I really rate who I know could take us on a better path than we're on now.

I honestly think 13 years has been too long and the current govt have literally run out of ideas.

It's chaotic, it honestly is.

All they do is come out with headline ideas, none of which actually happen. They're quietly dropped like the 40 new hospitals, the irish trade border, levelling up, improving social care,
It's all just lies and soundbites to look good.
I wonder what it will take for some people to see the light.

But Jeremy Corbyn.
Keir had a beer.
It was only 10 minutes.
Everyone was doing it.
Look at squirrel.
Lets sack half the civil service to hide our incompetence.
I've heard Rwanda is nice this time of year.

SueSaid · 15/05/2022 18:33

'and if it touches a nerve with some posters then it's made its point'

No no you misunderstand. It doesn't 'touch a nerve' it just doesn't make sense that's all and sounds a bit silly. But folk said happy birthday to BJ! <stamps feet>.

Blossomtoes · 15/05/2022 18:35

Oh Lord, so now we’re reduced to foot stamping.

Luculentus · 15/05/2022 18:38

SueSaid · 15/05/2022 10:46

'Back to the rotting fish head The buck stops at the top. Always been the way. The PM has to make the decisions and thereby he accepts the ultimate responsibility for those decisions.'

I wish you'd stop with the rotting fish head thing.The PM is not in charge of the management of all civil servants. Their line managers are. Hasn't one of those fined gone on to manage a Labour Council so by your rationale her leaving do was Starmer's fault?

It's interesting, when the vaccine roll out was a massive success that was nothing to do with government according to some on here, oh noooo it was the nhs all acting independently! Now we have civil servants getting fpns and it's all Johnson's fault.

Anyway in other news, we came second in the Eurovision. We are popular aren't we .

On Johnson's own admission, he saw a load of people partying in his back garden and did fuck all about it. He presided over an organisation where there was a culture that the rules about gatherings didn't apply to them. Do you imagine for one moment that they would have behaved that way if he as PM had made it clear from the start that it was totally unacceptable? Can any of us imagine them behaving that way under, say, May or Thatcher?

Luculentus · 15/05/2022 18:43

SueSaid · 15/05/2022 12:10

'Remind me how long it took to create the Nightingale hospitals. You know, the ones that were never used.'

A few weeks? Surely you aren't suggesting elderly people should have been kept in acute hospital beds after we'd seen hospitals in Italy be overwhelmed? Care homes should have isolated patients discharged from hospitals. I hope any future inquiry looks at care homes owners and what they did or didn't do.

The Nightingale Hospitals weren't acute hospital beds.

Luculentus · 15/05/2022 18:46

SueSaid · 15/05/2022 10:49

'A half way house? So being discharged from hospital but not going directly to a care home - a period of isolation before being returned to a care home'

Yes a period of isolation in a halfway house would have been ideal, logistically hard to spring up overnight of course unless families had the space to category their loved ones. Tbh if I were a rich care home owner accepting patients (and the money) during a well reported pandemic I'd have made sure they did infact have a period of isolation - in the care home.

Very few care home owners are rich. They cost an absolute fortune to run. To arrange isolation for everyone dumped on them, they'd have had to recruit a LOT of extra staff, and since Brexit that's incredibly difficult at the best of times. Mid pandemic, it was even worse. And they weren't warned of the risks.

Original poster

Roussette · 15/05/2022 18:47

But folk said happy birthday to BJ!

Yeah... nothing like your decorator, wife and 30 0thers grouping in the cabinet room for a sing song is there during a strict lockdown...

And the 17 other parties?

@Luculentus
Do you imagine for one moment that they would have behaved that way if he as PM had made it clear from the start that it was totally unacceptable?
Totally agree
As I said up thread... "That would not have happened if it had been made clear that partying during lockdown would not be tolerated"

OP posts:

prettybird · 15/05/2022 18:49

Oh that's ok then,"Folks said happy birthday to BJ"

Blossomtoes · 15/05/2022 18:55

The Nightingale Hospitals weren't acute hospital beds

Precisely. It just shows how quickly an alternative could have been provided for infected people no longer requiring an acute bed. Instead of chucking them into care homes and causing tens of thousands of deaths.

ADadInDisguise · 15/05/2022 18:59

I'm quite surprised people didn't expect it to spread asymptomatically. After all - it's a coronovirus, a relative of the cold and flu, which spread asymptomatically. Apparently the government were warned of this at the time but choose to forget it now.

I don't think it's just the running out of ideas with this lot, the massive increase in food bank use over their tenure, the structural changes that have moved the balance of money in society further from the poor to the rich.

We have a government that is into dog-whistle politics. That's what it has - backed up by a press which every manifesto is bribed with promises of holding off Leveson (while Starmer instead promises to clamp down on the tax loopholes that allow the paper owners to be even more stupidly rich). It's not "how do we solve the cost of living crisis?" it's "Oh look - a rubber dinghy!", "Oh look - a man in a dress!", "Oh look, an invented Other, and enemy we can blame your troubles on and promise to vanquish for you".

jgw1 · 15/05/2022 19:36

Blossomtoes · 15/05/2022 18:35

Oh Lord, so now we’re reduced to foot stamping.

Sheep stamp their feet when they are cross.

I don't suppose fish do.

jgw1 · 15/05/2022 19:37

Luculentus · 15/05/2022 18:38

On Johnson's own admission, he saw a load of people partying in his back garden and did fuck all about it. He presided over an organisation where there was a culture that the rules about gatherings didn't apply to them. Do you imagine for one moment that they would have behaved that way if he as PM had made it clear from the start that it was totally unacceptable? Can any of us imagine them behaving that way under, say, May or Thatcher?

Show quote history

They may not know what a party is, but do those other Prime Ministers know what a woman is? This is the most unimportant issue of the day.

jgw1 · 15/05/2022 19:41

ADadInDisguise · 15/05/2022 18:59

I'm quite surprised people didn't expect it to spread asymptomatically. After all - it's a coronovirus, a relative of the cold and flu, which spread asymptomatically. Apparently the government were warned of this at the time but choose to forget it now.

I don't think it's just the running out of ideas with this lot, the massive increase in food bank use over their tenure, the structural changes that have moved the balance of money in society further from the poor to the rich.

We have a government that is into dog-whistle politics. That's what it has - backed up by a press which every manifesto is bribed with promises of holding off Leveson (while Starmer instead promises to clamp down on the tax loopholes that allow the paper owners to be even more stupidly rich). It's not "how do we solve the cost of living crisis?" it's "Oh look - a rubber dinghy!", "Oh look - a man in a dress!", "Oh look, an invented Other, and enemy we can blame your troubles on and promise to vanquish for you".

You see this is definitely a Brexit opportunity and I think I might write to Jacob about it. Instead of most things being the fault of unelected EU bureaucrats and their wonky bananas there is the opportunity to blame things on all kinds of other members of society, who should feel blessed to have that opportunity.

MarshaBradyo · 15/05/2022 19:42

This is the most unimportant issue of the day.

as a woman (and feminist) I couldn’t disagree more

I know it gets this kind of derision / sarcasm a lot but I’m not up for erasing sex based rights

ADadInDisguise · 15/05/2022 19:55

I don't think any politician is actually disagreeing about what a woman is. Starmer has been vilified in the press, but Jacob Reese Mogg in a radio interview said basically the same thing as Starmer does, and possibly the only thing they can really say.

The law can be read here: www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/contents

The law differentiates between a natal woman and a trans woman and determines when the two are treated equally under law and when they are not. The job of the law is to balance the rights and needs of the different groups and it tries to do so quite well.

This idea that is being spread, that some politicians do not know what a woman is, is false. Certainly at the level of politicians like Starmer with his legal background he is well aware of when the law treats a trans woman as a woman and when it doesn't and any debate on changing the balance of the law needs to go into a lot more detail and depth than the really shallow sound-bites we're seeing in the popular press.

Both sides have needs and rights, and there is a lot of detail there which I believe is missed in the sensationalist reporting we see. The job of the press includes to educate and inform. Sadly our popular press does neither.

ADadInDisguise · 15/05/2022 19:59

It seems there's not editing on this thing.

I'll add to my previous - that the law is often about the relationship between us and the state. Also about things like how it's a generally bad idea to go around murdering eachother, but often about how we interact with the state. There was a big fuss in the right wing media (especially the Telegraph) about same sex marriage and how it would be the End Of The World if allowed. Thankfully it has been allowed and the world seems to have failed to end. But marriage in law determines things like what happens to the estate if one dies, how much tax they pay, who takes responsibility. This is different to what anyone believes their god believes about marriage.

Blossomtoes · 15/05/2022 20:06

I don’t think we need to worry too much. Wes Streeting is quite clear about what a woman is.

order-order.com/2022/03/30/wes-streeting-successfully-defines-men-women/

L1ttledrummergirl · 15/05/2022 22:02

The law differentiates between a natal woman and a trans woman

That statement is offensive to me, a woman. My sex descriptor needs nothing added, it already stands for itself.

Any changes to this are very important as are the differences between transwomen and women.

That's a different discussion to the one we are having here though and the best place for you to go is the feminist board.

Luculentus · 15/05/2022 23:05

MarshaBradyo · 15/05/2022 19:42

This is the most unimportant issue of the day.

as a woman (and feminist) I couldn’t disagree more

I know it gets this kind of derision / sarcasm a lot but I’m not up for erasing sex based rights

But you are apparently happy with a government which has done nothing about it during 12 years in power?

Blossomtoes · 15/05/2022 23:08

Exactly. Words are cheap.

MarshaBradyo · 15/05/2022 23:30

I know these threads are full of the most vocal Labour supporters but yes I do think it’s a shame women are derided. This sarcasm over how unimportant it is is a shame.

I get that you might think Labour will be more positive, but imo it would be better to focus on why rather than deride women caring about their rights.

As for Labour’s direction, no it’s not somewhere I want to go wrt to this issue, unless Starmer gets it together

and I also agree with pp ‘natal’ is not needed and is offensive

derxa · 16/05/2022 03:31

Blossomtoes · 15/05/2022 20:06

I don’t think we need to worry too much. Wes Streeting is quite clear about what a woman is.

order-order.com/2022/03/30/wes-streeting-successfully-defines-men-women/

Wes is gunning for Keir's job

itsgettingweird · 16/05/2022 05:47

MarshaBradyo · 15/05/2022 23:30

I know these threads are full of the most vocal Labour supporters but yes I do think it’s a shame women are derided. This sarcasm over how unimportant it is is a shame.

I get that you might think Labour will be more positive, but imo it would be better to focus on why rather than deride women caring about their rights.

As for Labour’s direction, no it’s not somewhere I want to go wrt to this issue, unless Starmer gets it together

and I also agree with pp ‘natal’ is not needed and is offensive

Im not sure why you think those of us here who think a Johnson is doing a poor job and should stick to the law must be labour supporters?

I've always been a swing voter - and I don't think just because there's no strong opposition we should accept what we have.

And I don't think KS should be having to defend himself for a work dinner because dragging him down makes the Tory's look equal.

Peregrina · 16/05/2022 05:57

Yes, it's a pity that some who are normally Conservative voters haven't got the guts to say that Johnson is letting the side down - their own standards are better. The Tories used to pride themselves on being the party of law and order. Now we can see that it was only for the plebs.

borntobequiet · 16/05/2022 06:07

I know these threads are full of the most vocal Labour supporters

Hardly. I can’t think of one, though I may have missed their more vocal support when scrolling through the hundreds of posts expressing mild disappointment with the Opposition.