Boris and his fines part 4

[Roussette]

Previous thread. More to come on the subject matter

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4536641-boris-has-been-fined-part-3?reply=117100091

The sarcasm comes as a result of Boris flip flopping and jumping on any passing bandwagon that he thinks will distract from his failings.

Does thinking that having a Prime Minister who is a liar and law breaker a bad idea automatically make one one a Labour Supporter? Is Ian Blackford a Labour supporter?

Like I say I think it’s a shame women’s rights ends up under attack as a result

it’s unimportant etc. No matter what I’ll never utter those words, too many men are happy to do that for me and have done for centuries.

I agree that Partygate has hugely damaged a government which last had a landslide, and in some ways Labour have an open goal

i found this interesting as I was a remainer voter who fits with the group who couldn’t vote for Labour last time (although have before). I have in the past disliked Blair for various reasons but I think he’s right on this

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/13/tony-blair-tells-keir-starmer-to-drop-woke-politics-and-focus-on-economy-labour

Absolutely.
The Stairs family are all Conservative voters and they are critical - much more so since Paterson.

I know these threads are full of the most vocal Labour supporters

No, I don't believe that to be true. I've voted Tory in the past (admittedly a very long time ago when the party actually had some Ministers with moral fibre) and LibDem. And if there were an Election tomorrow, I would be voting tactically.

I do think the knowing what a woman is discussion should be avoided here, there's enough opportunity on the Feminist boards.

I'm pissed off with both parties. I like to vote for the person standing in my constituency who I feel best represents me and what I stand for.

I want to be proud of them and the things they achieve on my behalf but equally I feel (rightly or wrongly) they have to belong to one of the main parties to be better heard.

Right now neither Labour or Conservative are listening or behaving in a manner that makes me say yes, I can identify with you.

I've always thought that in business, if you want a company to succeed then you tell them what they are doing wrong so that they have the opportunity to change. If you don't mind whether they stay or close then don't say anything and they will find out when sales drop and they become unsustainable.
The flip side is to acknowledge when they are doing well and to let them know.
They choose if they are going to listen.

In politics the two main parties know that a lot has to change for them to be voted out altogether so they have stopped listening.
This pisses me off because we deserve much better.

Hardcore Labour voters? That's just lazy marsha

Not wanting a government who are lawbreakers and liars should be something we all aspire to. And I am not just talking about Partygate, this lot has history. Remember the unlawful prorogation of Parliament, breaking international law in a limited and specific way, Owen Paterson, the 'oven ready' brexit deal.

L1ttledrummergirl a different voting system would be a start.

Personally I think saying women’s rights is unimportant is a lazy and unnecessary attack

The part about Labour supporters was the least important part of my post in my mind, as I didn’t say Labour supporters as an insult, it’s the impression built up over the threads, this and others

It has been picked up upon though so if posters don’t vote for Labour then fine, nothing wrong with that either.

Personally I think saying women’s rights is unimportant is a lazy and unnecessary attack

Except that nobody has said that.

This is the most unimportant issue of the day.

I see this on here wrt women rights, yes it’s sarcastic but in my view damaging and a shame

Nobody has said womens rights are unimportant.

The thread is explicitly about Johnson's leadership and how it is a corrupting influence.

The point isn't "but Labour" - it is why aren't the Conservative party in uproar? Why would anyone follow a man who has lied at every stage of his career? Who has misled Parliament and has all but torn up the Code of Conduct?

So why are you defending a government that does not support women's rights?

I have no time for Blair and I am not sure what his game is - other than a smug egocentrism.

I have not noticed Labour, or specifically Starmer , engaging in 'woke ' politics - this is a right wing press belief based on spurious to no evidence. This is disappointing from Blair, and specifically the Guardian to allow the word woke to be used in a dogwhistle DM way.

The establishment - especially the Labour one - need to exercise caution. So called woke politics on things like climate change, BLM and - yes- gender identity - are the core of young voters values. Young voters in their (not quite enough) droves aligned themselves with Labour under Corbyn. If they can be persuaded to vote, they are powerful.

The Tory government is engaged in a (terrifying to me) war against any liberal attitudes at the moment and this seems to be seeping through, including te belief that widening university participation at elite universities is somehow unfair and woke, for example and that the privileged elite are terribly disadvantaged. They don't believe anything - they just say what they think will run well with any core demographic who are a bit pissed off.

If woke is believing in equality, for all and ensuring structures in society work to the benefit of all then colour me woke and bury me in a woke coffin.

As a side note, why are lifelong Conservative voters never called 'hardcore'?

We have discussed on here whether the particular aspect of sex and identity is 'important' before in the sense of whether it matters as a top issue to most voters. I think that conversation has been done but various surveys of voter attitudes do suggest it is not a top priority. This does not mean it isn't important to individuals but MN magnifies its importance as an election . voting issue. This may, in part, be what Blair means - but I don't think labour are spending much time on being 'woke' n gender politics, or anything similar.

The Tory budgetting advice for today

Rachel Maclean: People can protect themselves better from the cost of living crisis "by taking on more hours or moving to a better job"

These threads are many posters saying the same and on some things I thought it incorrect so posted eg

Rayner got it wrong
if you wanted compliance then early concern over public not doing so is something you’d welcome than not

and now women’s rights unimportant

I know partygate has been damaging and haven’t spent much time on that

If woke is believing in equality, for all and ensuring structures in society work to the benefit of all then colour me woke and bury me in a woke coffin.

Exactly

This

If woke is further erasing woman's rights then I’ll leave you and others to do that

They don't believe anything - they just say what they think will run well with any core demographic who are a bit pissed off

This with knobs on. They are terrified of losing so will say anything to appeal to their tory fans, especially the Britain First and UKIP ones that moved across to the party in 2019. Patel is doing a good job with that.

Marsha you want to make womens rights the top of the list as far as importance. By anyone saying they don't feel it is the most important issue, does not mean we have said it's 'unimportant'.

There are far more important issues to the electorate, that is all.

I know people feel other issues are more important, which is totally up to them.

We all vote according to what we find important, thank goodness.

it was this line specifically I disagreed with -

This is the most unimportant issue of the day.

I didn’t bring the topic up, and wouldn’t have if that wasn’t there to object to

That really isn't what we are saying marsha

Womens rights are not a shield behind which the Conservative party can shelter whilst they chronically underfund the legal services, or fast track Government contracts to mates, or side step the cost of living issues and the housing market - the first and latter points particularly damage women.

So there's not much that will persuade me that Johnson has the rights of women at the heart of his agenda.

Government is currently only acting to get Johnson out of whatever hole he has got himself in to. They fling out whatever barking mad policy (bridge between Scotland & NI anyone???) they can find to distract us from key issues.

Seems pretty straight forward as a statement which I’ve seen a few times now

I’m not voting for the further erasure of my own rights, we all have lines we won’t cross. And that’s fine - if others feel differently that’s their democratic vote.

Johnson is in Belfast today and has written a piece for the Belfast Telegraph. Crisis talks.

I profess to not knowing enough about the situation despite trying to educate myself. But he's either going to hugely upset NI or the EU by breaking what we agreed to. No, we do not want a trade war.

Yes I have a feeling of dread about the NI visit. I'd like to think they will tread carefully (for the benefit of our relationship with the US if they aren't concerned about NI itself).

A trade war would make fun headlines for some of newspapers though.