What America gets right about the abortion debate

[LesyaUkraina]

Interesting article in the Spectator today

www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-america-gets-right-about-the-abortion-debate/amp

This is all about moving the Overton window. Make it seem like a debate with sides to discuss. Instead of seeing it for the assault on women and women's rights it really is.

Start threads asking for a 'reasonable debate'. People start to see women's healthcare as a debate, not an absolute.

Well we see that happening regularly in 'other areas' don't we. It's basically bullying when it boils down to it.

Spot on MrsTerryPratchett and OhLordyWhatNow.

Here's what I think it boils down to:

Does banning abortion lead to fewer abortions?

But the problem is we can't possibly know the answer because a backstreet abortion is just that.

Does it deter irresponsible sex? It may do this, but we'd need research, which is too easily manipulated and can never be accurate anyway.

If it did deter irresponsible sex I'd say maybe that's an argument to make abortion illegal, but then you'd have to offset it against the suffering of children being removed from parents who never wanted them, going into care, fostering etc. etc.

And I don't think you'd end up with less overall suffering.

So I'm pro-legal abortion.

If you decide at 22 weeks you just can't do it and want the baby dead? I don't believe you should be allowed, I think you should have to give them up for adoption at that point. I'd be interested to know often a case such as that occurs though, I'd hope rarely.

Abortion is down to the woman. No one else gets a say.

Worth listening to Ron Jonson 1000 dolls about the start of abortion culture www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0011cpq

I wonder if the American Pro-life movement would be in support of this if all the responsibilities fell to the father? All childcare, all monetary responsibility, all emotional support. Many absent fathers barely want to pay child maintenance, let alone do the hard work.

I can't see that one flying.

Going on the religious angle that abortion is murder of the foetus and against God's wishes, a miscarriage is what then? God murdering the unborn foetus? Not terribly pro life of Him is it.

If it did deter irresponsible sex I'd say maybe that's an argument to make abortion illegal

WTF? That's some medieval thinking there.

And women don't just decide at 22 weeks to abort. The statistics are that the vast majority of women given the choice choose to have early abortions (under 10 weeks) themselves. Over 20 weeks is 1% of abortions (and tends to decrease over time) and almost exclusively for medical reasons. Women don't need legislated. We make good decisions on our own and with the advice of medical professionals. When you make women travel, jump through hoops and make it difficult, that's when they have pater abortions.

And on the use of contraceptives, the NY Times did a very good graphic (now unfortunately hidden behind a paywall) with the relative failure rates of contraception over time. Everyone say 'oh the pill is 99% effective, there's no excuse'. That's PER YEAR of perfect use. IRL 9 women in 100 EVERY YEAR will get pregnant while using the pill. 9 in 100 every year starts to add up over time!

The pro life zealots probably consider it foetal suicide and the heavens will never accept them and they will be condemned to hell? 🤷‍♀️

Wouldn't surprise me OhLordyWhatNow.

They care about a moral crusade more than women's lives and health.