Why is children's behaviour worse these days?

[salviapages]

I recently retrained as a primary teacher, did placements in a few schools then worked as a supply teacher so seen a wide range and I've been shocked at the behaviour. Nothing like how I remember kids in my class at primary being.

Every teacher I've spoken to about this says behaviour has gotten worse over the years and I've seen mumsnetters say the same, including in the current thread about teachers leaving the profession.

So - why is this? Have we changed how we raise children? Have schools changed? Why the rise in bad behaviour?

But actually stats for things like risky behaviour by teens, alcohol drinking, teenage pregnancy etc - all of these things are down. Which kind of suggests that (if you assume behaviour is a result of parenting) parenting is better these days than in previous generations.

(Sorry I meant to add this somewhere and forgot).

@Organictangerine I try not to ever use threat or fear with DS. The only affect that had in the 80s and 90s was to encourage children/teens to be sneaky. There was very little respect for our parents, we just tried to avoid a bollocking (or beating, in some cases). Don’t get me wrong, I’m in charge - two year old don’t have the capacity to call the shots. But, if we have to do something he doesn’t like, I still do it, but try and empathise with his annoyance/upset/whatever. Tantrums are thankfully rare, but i personally don’t view them as bad behaviour, as is so often quoted on here. They certainly aren’t praised or rewarded, but equally I try not to get cross or stop them.

I’m certainly not saying I have all the answers and I’m acutely aware I have a 2 year old so haven’t been around the block all that long…but equally the idea that showing your kids some degree of respect and allowing them to have emotions (both good and bad) equates to letting them be demanding terrors who can’t handle ‘no’ bothers me, somewhat.

I hate to break it to fans of the aphorism attributed to Socrates but he didn't say it.

Fair enough if true, but it was written according to your source in 1907. That rather suggests it isn’t a recent 21st problem.

Behaviour is different now - to it was when I was at school- certainly the nuances, understanding and trends are different. Objectively it isn’t worse though.

A child was stabbed at my school in the 90s, a primary child upturned furniture in explosive anger in my classroom in 2010, and a secondary child I teach was expelled for dealing drugs this year. All bad behaviour, but I wouldn’t say it was escalating (frankly if it was still escalating from the stabbing in the 90s I’d be in hospital or worse fairly regularly…)

In the 1960s, the majority of mothers did not work and instead focused on child rearing. Today, about 90% of mothers in UK work. I don’t want to offend anyone and I know that working can benefit the mother’s mental health and is often unavoidable etc etc - but it is undeniable that children spending the majority of their time in childcare settings has had a huge impact on them. Particularly as some nursery staff and childminders don’t bother to intervene in conflicts between young children. Children learn that bad behaviour is more effective than good behaviour. Also parents who only see their children briefly at weekends / evenings are simply not as expert in effective discipline as parents who are with their child for 100% of the early years. I know so many parents who have zero idea how to teach good behaviour, instead relying on reward charts or worse ‘modelling’ good behaviour in the hope that the child will somehow absorb it.

I disagree that it’s gentle parenting. I think it’s less parenting. Children are being raised by nurseries and see their parents less as they’re often both working. Families look different.

I think children and teenagers are just as well/badly behaved as they ever have been. The way this behaviour is dealt with at home/school/work has changed which has impact but the vast majority of children teens and young people are lovely (in my experience as a parent, school governor and academic in HEA).

I think society has grown (over a long period) from viewing the individual as part of a mass, to seeing the individual as solely important and therefore whose needs come first before the majority.

We have become more self absorbed and self interested without thinking about the effect on the whole.

I think childhood used to be a lot crueller than it is now. It’s harder to parent these days without severe punishments but it is for the greater good, imo.

So much judging of other parents on this thread. Everyone thinks it's other peoples parenting and children who are the problem, never their own

I know so many parents who have zero idea how to teach good behaviour, instead relying on reward charts or worse ‘modelling’ good behaviour in the hope that the child will somehow absorb it.

Er… reward charts and modelling are both good methods of teaching good behaviour.

Speaking as a working parent I also take issue with the idea I’m not expert in disciplining my own DC. Their interaction with the world and school reports say otherwise thank you very much.

Schools don't have the resources or staff to deal with those that aren't well behaved, is my guess.

Increasing lack of respect for ‘authority’, even if in some cases it has been for good reason.

I think it’s also to do with the police force being rendered unable to act on low level crime and teachers feeling scared to discipline in the way they used to….not necessarily related to corporal punishment, but being more stern and authoritative in class in case parents complain. Lack of discipline in the home for some children.

I think things have swung too much in the opposite direction from when our parents and grandparents were children.

Kids now are nonworse than kids in previous generations, they're different but different doesn't mean bad.

I can only speak for my kids and their friends but I don't see their behaviour as being bad at all 🤔 one or two are a bit gobby but not hurting one another or behaving badly in public etc. The only negative behaviours I've seen (casual racism etc) are more ingrained things that they've heard from parents

It's a combination of various factors.

Lack of special schools and an ever increasing number of children with SEN. Having SEN doesn't make them naughty, but being in an unsuitable environment can make them seem so. Including harmless behaviours that bring them comfort that deviate from strict good behaviour rules. For example fiddling or sitting under a table quietly and listening to the lesson. Lack of appropriate help and support, delay in diagnosis , massive cuts to things like sure start,children's centres ,youth groups, mental health services etc.

The poverty vicious circle that sometimes brings low interest,low aspirations,low expectations. Not to mention it's a lot harder to keep up,learn and do your homework when you're always cold,hungry, living 5 in a room and so on.

Home environments that are abusive,neglectful,toxic,chaotic etc.

That's just to name a few and each one has a massive impact that can fill it's own thread.

Technology has been the reason a primary school teacher gave me. This was more than 10 years ago so I imagine this is even worse.

Her comment was that children are used to the immediate rewards from games as well as the very fast pace that they struggle to sit still and concentrate/cope with the much slower pace needed to learn skills such as reading etc…
She said she was spending a hell of a lot of energy ‘being the clown/entertainer’ to try and keep their attention so they could learn.

Tbf a shorter attention span is something that has been found in adults too…..

Austerity
Covid
Parents who can't say no

I don’t think that poverty is new tbh. It’s not what will have made things worse. It just always has been there.

@Hospedia

Children with SEN are not to blame for rhe behaviour of children without SEN.

I work in and have vast experience in SEN. Sadly I think there exists a significant proportion of SEN children who have their parents’ chaotic lifestyles to thank for their additional needs. That in turn means that there are a number of SEN places taken up by children who might, in a different environment, not require them. This in turn (as there are only finite SEN places) leaves other children struggling to cope in mainstream. I think our ‘softly softly’ permissive approach in society in general (allowing addicts to have child after child after child to cite just one instance) whilst laudable has had horrendous consequences for children and future generations. It’s really tragic and upsetting.

@Hospedia

Kids now are nonworse than kids in previous generations, they're different but different doesn't mean bad.

A larger proportion of children have less respect for adults, are less compliant and less considerate of others than ( say ) 40 years ago.

I would also add nutrition into the reasons for poor behaviour. Obviously it's not the only reason but many children today are lacking in essential vitamins and minerals that come from a varied diet. Food has an impact on mood as well as on physical development.

Fast food, sweet food, beige food, junk food - there are lots of names for it, but it equates to the same thing.

How many children today are eating mainly home cooked food, with fish, offal, vegetables and fruits?

I read lots of posts on here where children are described as 'picky eaters' and other posters tell them to 'let them eat what they want.'

Also social media and screens

@RowanAlong

I disagree that it’s gentle parenting. I think it’s less parenting. Children are being raised by nurseries and see their parents less as they’re often both working. Families look different.

I don’t think it’s as simple as this. Parenting haw become a lifestyle compared to when we were young. Lots of ‘I let my child talk to me about how they feel/well done child, you smacked another child but told me you felt annoyed today - great work identifying that emotion/my child needs to express themselves and aren’t they amazing etc

Lots of parents scared to death of making their child sad for a minute.

Think it’s foolish to say it’s those working parents, as if all the SAHP’s raise well mannered children. It’s a mixture and it’s down to parent personality. But the rise of spoilt parents and spoilt children is depressing!

Physical abuse is less common and less socially acceptable, so less children have a fear of their teachers and their parents.

I was terrified of my mother. I think I still am, in a way. I'm really glad that my children aren't frightened of me. It was a horrible way to grow up and although I'm sure my teachers will have thought I was well behaved, it really didn't do me any good. I was deeply unhappy.

This thread is just… wow. I’m a mum to 3 children aged 3, 1 and a newborn. I work full time, am already back at work (self employed) and have practically no support network around me when it comes to childcare as my parents are still working, and will be for many more years.

I’m a gentle parent, not a permissive parent; some of you seem to be mistaking the two. Basically that means that I treat my children with the respect that I expect in return. Do they rule the roost? Absolutely not. I mean what I say, they experience natural consequences to their actions every day and we have firm boundaries in our home. I don’t need to hit and shout at my children, or instill fear in them to get them to behave. My eldest attends a preschool who have no issues with her behaviour.

There’s so many comments on here about how the mothers of today are failing their children. It seems so odd that those of you who raised those mothers seem to think it means nothing that an entire society of people is saying “hey, this is how I was raised and I DON’T want to raise my children this way”. Maybe some self reflection is needed? My generation has some of the highest rates of mental health problems we have ever seen. Can you really call that a success in the way we were raised?

I work in childcare and have done for the last 8 years. I don’t personally struggle with the behaviour of the children, but for those of you who do, would you not say there have been some other pretty huge changes in recent years that could be a contributing factor to the children’s behaviour? Maybe the fact that most parents are now required to both work full time to sustain a family, meaning children spent as much as 50% of their time in childcare? Or the fact that rising retirement age has meant that the days of grandparents being able to help out and support their children are practically behind us? How about the fact that we are more isolated than ever, and no longer have a village of experience and support accessible?

There is so much wrong with this thread. Don’t we all experience enough mum-guilt as it is without turning on fellow mothers?