Why is children's behaviour worse these days?

[salviapages]

I recently retrained as a primary teacher, did placements in a few schools then worked as a supply teacher so seen a wide range and I've been shocked at the behaviour. Nothing like how I remember kids in my class at primary being.

Every teacher I've spoken to about this says behaviour has gotten worse over the years and I've seen mumsnetters say the same, including in the current thread about teachers leaving the profession.

So - why is this? Have we changed how we raise children? Have schools changed? Why the rise in bad behaviour?

We regularly 'model good behaviour' through things like reading together at bedtime. This is far more preferable to us than raising a child who fears us and so can't approach us confidently.

Times are far more different for parents too, most are time poor due to work commitments. Home ownership is a luxury and bills are taking up a higher proportion of salaries, so most do rely more on after school care. Blaming parents for this is unfair.

We live in a society now where we quite rightly don't allow smacking or other severe discipline measures. I find it quite upsetting to see so many parents judge gentler parenting methods when it's far kinder than smacking or undermining a child's confidence.

Sadly I think there exists a significant proportion of SEN children who have their parents’ chaotic lifestyles to thank for their additional needs

Really? I have little experience of SEN but thought it was either idiopathic or due to an identifiable medical reason. Not lifestyle-induced?

I agree with PP, there seems to be a lot of people on here confusing gentle parenting with permissive parenting.

You can be gentle and set clear and effective boundaries.

@VenusClapTrap

Hmm. This is only my own personal experience, but I’d say behaviour at the primary school I attended in the 1970s was worse than the behaviour of the kids at my dcs’ primary today. Some of those kids I went to school with were quite terrifying. Looking back, it’s pretty clear they had unpleasant home lives. I doubt that Mrs Hardiman hitting them with a plimsoll for their misdemeanours helped matters either.

Would this have been D....Junior School, with a certain Mr. D, Mr. M (music) Mr. B..(popular) and Mrs. S ( secretary!). The school that's now (like many others) converted into flats?

Sadly I think there exists a significant proportion of SEN children who have their parents’ chaotic lifestyles to thank for their additional needs

What scope of SEN are we talking about though? I have a DC who was on the SEN register for being behind in reading, they were a reluctant reader and needed extra support to turn it around, they caught up and came off the register. I also have two DC on the register due to neurodevelopment disabilities.

Most neurodevelopment conditions have genetic links. Usually when you have a child with a ND condition and a parent with a chaotic lifestyle, it's often because the parent themselves has the same condition but undiagnosed because back in their day it wasn't a "thing" or they were just considered "naughty" or conditions are "just for kids". Many parents find their child's assessment process to be a real light bulb moment as they recognise so many red flags about their own development.

@itsgettingweird

IME it's the closure of special schools and the misunderstood and poorly executed idea of inclusion.

You have pupils who are in MS school who cannot for their own reasons cope. Many don't even have the support they need to at least attempt to manage it.

Behaviour is a form of communication and most of these pupils are communicating something.

Absolutely this. I teach in a mainstream school and inclusion only works if there are resources, people and training to support it. I have felt abandoned with several children who have severe/complex needs and a class full of other children who have missed so much learning (and experienced some quite awful things during school closures) who I have to try and get caught up to where they should be.

I think every generation has said this! Same as ‘exams are easier now’. People also used to blame rock music (the outrage when Elvis was gyrating!), video nasties, communism sympathisers, the Beatles, mini skirts… the list is endless. Trouble is nobody lives for 500-odd years so it’s impossible to compare anything. It depends on where you live, culture, social economic upbringing, education, literally any denominator as to how you think children’s behaviour is and has therefore changed. There is no real category you can tick for a ‘well behaved’ child so it’s very difficult to research - attitudes change over time, so it’s impossible to track.

I work full time and my child has beautiful manners, thank you. That's not just my perception, but also that of her former nursery nurses, her teachers and other random adults who have commented on how well behaved she is in restaurants etc.

I treat her with respect and she mostly does the same back, but being a small child, she sometimes tests the boundaries. I'm not a shouter and generally request her to stop with a 'please', which is heeded around 95% of the time. If it's not, I speak more firmly and she gets 'the look' and will stop. There doesn't need to be a fear of violence or yelling.

Conversely, I see some SAHMs doing the school run, who let their toddlers bang on the gates, kick things, try to climb on everything and they don't say a thing! I don't think employment status has anything to do with instilling good manners and respect into children.

@salviapages

I recently retrained as a primary teacher, did placements in a few schools then worked as a supply teacher so seen a wide range and I've been shocked at the behaviour. Nothing like how I remember kids in my class at primary being.

Every teacher I've spoken to about this says behaviour has gotten worse over the years and I've seen mumsnetters say the same, including in the current thread about teachers leaving the profession.

So - why is this? Have we changed how we raise children? Have schools changed? Why the rise in bad behaviour?

I walked away from teaching after a 25 year career last June. I refused to be subjected to being spat on, told to fuck off, go fuck myself and pupils not listening to instruction. The parents were the worst, blaming education staff when we called home to come and collect a child due to their behaviour and little Tommy could do no wrong! I taught P1/P3 for the last 3 years before covid.

Many parents refuse to parent their children, choosing to be their friends instead with little to no boundaries in place. Many parents choose the mainstream route for children that can’t cope in mainstream as they have no other option, however, having one or two children who continually disrupt a class at the detriment to the other 24 children in the class doesn’t work. Why should many children’s education suffer due to one or two children in the class? On the other hand, why should children who desperately need a 1:1 or specialist provision have to endure mainstream education that they simply can’t cope with?

There’s also the issue of ineffective SMT who are far too busy having meeting after meeting to get their arses out into the school instead of sitting in their offices.

I walked away as I was sick of parents tbh.

Parents think their little darlings can do no wrong, they're just very spirited children.

I think it's a combination of guilt parenting and sometimes lazy parenting. I'll use my niece as an example because she is the naughtiest kid I know. My DB (single dad) was abused as a child so if she cries he feels guilty and gives in to her. She cries because she is getting in trouble for being naughty, he gives in and round and round we go. My nephews are also really naughty and a huge handfull. My SIL often looks the other way when they are being naughty because it's easier. So they are naughty, look the other way..and round and round we go. We would appear to be gentle parents from the outside in. Recently my MIL commented if you actually watch us we are all over our kids behaviour, just in a gentle way. So I don't blame gentle parenting, but for it to be done well it is actually much harder work.

I have to say that all the kids I know from my daughter's state primary are absolutely lovely and beautifully behaved. They give me hope for the future.

I feel so sorry for children though, they've had such an awful time over the past two years, and I'm sure that's most definitely affected children - much less opportunity to socialise, deprived of extended family contact and even of playgrounds during some periods of lockdown, family illness and high levels of bereavement, many after school clubs not running for some periods of time due to staff illness etc.

And an awful lot of poverty and deprivation, I'm afraid. More children than ever are growing up in poverty.

@SoyaChai

Some arrived Monday morning with pupils like saucers after they’d inhaled weed all weekend via passive smoking.

No, I'm sorry. You don't get dilates eyes the size of saucers from smoking weed, let alone from passive smoking! That's something you get from hallucinogenics and psychedelics like LSD or shrooms, or stimulants like cocaine and MDMA. Red, glassy, heavy eyes are more common with cannabis. It's really not a known, common sign of weed-smoking at all.

Yes, you do

"Dilated Pupils: Studies have shown that regular use of pot causes a condition known as mydriasis. This is the activation of the iris dilator and sphincter muscles. The result is dilated pupils as the parasympathetic nervous system gets triggered."
addictionresource.com/drugs/marijuana/

This is a hard one and there can be many reasons but I think that in some families boundaries have all but disappeared and parents have forgotten that they are the adults . Although children shouldn't fear their parents, they should respect them. I've seen supermarket behaviour where children obviously have no respect for their parents and have known a teacher who gave up teaching because there was no respect from her class and discipline was a nightmare - a few disruptive children preventing others from being able to concentrate in lessons she spent hours preparing. Have also been dismayed at parents who want to be their children's best friend and seemingly forgetting that they are the adult here. "Little Harry won't go to bed on time but what can you do?" So the child is allowed to stay up too late, dragged out of bed the folllowing morning and the teacher has to deal with a fractious overtired child.

Imma paediatric nurse, and it does shock me the way that children speak to their parents compared to 20 years ago.
And what children get away with now. When I was little, if we were given medicine you took it with no argument and no messing about. Now kids are pussyfooted around.

And yet every parent I know whose child has a neurodevelopment disability is hyper-aware of their children's behaviour and extremely pro-active in managing it, they're also very adept at picking their battles - mainly because we know the parents of all the NT kids are watching and judging.

Children don’t fear their parents these days like they did many years ago.

Good. You shouldn't fear your parents or anybody who is bigger, stronger, more powerful than you. It's indicative of an abusive relationship.

Perhaps children currently feel safer to explore themselves and express their emotion. Rather than, like when we were kids, bottling stuff up, suppressing stuff and living in fear of adults. These children may actually grow up to be decent adults with less mental health issues, less FOG, more able to stand up for themselves, say no to CFs. You can't judge a generation until they're adults.

@Hospedia

And yet every parent I know whose child has a neurodevelopment disability is hyper-aware of their children's behaviour and extremely pro-active in managing it, they're also very adept at picking their battles - mainly because we know the parents of all the NT kids are watching and judging.

I know some that don't. Doesn't make their kid any less autistic, or their needs any less significant.

Regardless, bad parenting doesn't cause autism/adhd/whatever. It can exacerbate behaviours because the kid's needs aren't being met, just like being in a mainstream school without adequate support. Its still just a factor,not a cause.

@Gizacluethen

Children don’t fear their parents these days like they did many years ago.

Good. You shouldn't fear your parents or anybody who is bigger, stronger, more powerful than you. It's indicative of an abusive relationship.

Perhaps children currently feel safer to explore themselves and express their emotion. Rather than, like when we were kids, bottling stuff up, suppressing stuff and living in fear of adults. These children may actually grow up to be decent adults with less mental health issues, less FOG, more able to stand up for themselves, say no to CFs. You can't judge a generation until they're adults.

No they’re just naughty

Christ this thread is truly MN at its worst.