Why is children's behaviour worse these days?

[salviapages]

I recently retrained as a primary teacher, did placements in a few schools then worked as a supply teacher so seen a wide range and I've been shocked at the behaviour. Nothing like how I remember kids in my class at primary being.

Every teacher I've spoken to about this says behaviour has gotten worse over the years and I've seen mumsnetters say the same, including in the current thread about teachers leaving the profession.

So - why is this? Have we changed how we raise children? Have schools changed? Why the rise in bad behaviour?

Jesus fucking Christ.

Kiss don't get a place in a special school for "being naughty" and they don't need disciple, no amount of discipline or "making them realise its not all about them" will magically undo a disability. Also disabled kids wants to learn just as much as non-disabled kids do.

Ableist bullshit.

I do also wonder if the lack of access to things like GPs, hospital referrals, dentists, opticians, hearing checks etc. Has played a role as well. Fairly minor ailments can have a huge impact on behaviour, my DD has large tonsils which cause her to wake frequently through the night - we have been unable to get even an initial assessment so far (a referall was made there are just no appointments), the lack of sleep obviously has a huge impact on her behaviour and concentration in school (and admittedly my patience) and she is hardly an isolated case. I wonder how many children are living with things such as blurred vision, disturbed nights, poor hearing etc. Because their parents simply cannot get them seen too. Not so long ago checks were made in primary school (I remember eye checks and hearing tests at the very least) and it was definitely easier to get hospital appointments once referals were made.

You're not supposed to be friends with your kids. If you raise your kids well you'll be friends when they're older teens. I don't mean you make them hate you or be scared of you either.

I always heard - raise your kids so you can spoil your grandchildren, or spoil your kids and raise your grandchildren. I can't wait to spoil my grandchildren

So it was you.

My post did NOT mention disabled people. Now its gone the proof isn’t there.

These kids were the ones who were bored, did not want to learn. Rude, disturbing the class, those who just CBA.

Dont you Jesus fucking christ me

When I was at school, if we misbehaved consistently we got sent to the Headmaster for the slipper. I don't remember there being a particular problem with behaviour in my cohort.

DP is a teacher and the pupils that misbehave now get sent to the Headmaster for a hot chocolate and a chat, which revolves around asking them what the school can improve so the child doesn't feel the need to misbehave further.

I'm not saying we should bring back corporal punishment, far from it, but today's approach just doesn't provide the same incentive to behave!

I am not a teacher but I have been so impressed with all the children where I live, and there are many of them. When I walk around with the baby they quiet down a bit or make sure not to kick the ball too near. I see them throwing litter away and climbing trees and being happy, playful, kind people. I have sometimes wished I could tell their parents because they must be doing something right.

I do find it frustrating when people react as if a post was written about disabled or SEN people when it obviously wasn’t.

I didntndelete anything, only MNHQ can do that so maybe take it up with them?

Lack of respect. No real sense that adults are in charge. Everything being child centred to the detriment of adult life.
I tutored for many years in people's houses and the way that some children spoke to their parents was astonishing to me.

The things my 2 high schoolers tell me is quite shocking. Yes I can remember students misbehaving when I was in high school but not to the extent now - there seems to be total lack of respect to the Teachers and some of the behaviours really unstable. The majority of the trouble makers (from various year groups) seem to be females. I wonder if social media is to blame for some of it?

Stupid parents using their kids as friend substitutes, she’s my best friend, she’s your Daughter not a friend.
Not being told no
Pandering
Explaining too much all the time
No manners
Not being left to entertain themselves
No freedom/independence.
No wonder there’s a whole generation of useless teens/adults.

I hate to break it to fans of the aphorism attributed to Socrates but he didn't say it.

"It was crafted by a student, Kenneth John Freeman, for his Cambridge dissertation published in 1907. Freeman did not claim that the passage under analysis was a direct quotation of anyone"

quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/

Poor parenting, gentle parenting methods which often means the child rules the roost, parents unable to say no to there kids, entitled kids and entitled parents. Also parents who don’t believe there child would do x of y even when others tell them they have done or everyone else knows.

Drug and alcohol abuse is a big factor and effectively kids shouting out for help.

I think there is a lack of respect for authority. And teachers are in a position of authority.

Teachers are seen as just people who have a job rather than expertise that is to be respected.

@samthebordercollie

No idea but I've lived in France for 20 years and recently went to the UK first time in 3 years and when I was in the supermarket I was quite shocked at the noise and behaviour of young kids with their parents.

I agree with this. I recently read 'French children don't throw food,' it was enlightening.

Hmm. This is only my own personal experience, but I’d say behaviour at the primary school I attended in the 1970s was worse than the behaviour of the kids at my dcs’ primary today. Some of those kids I went to school with were quite terrifying. Looking back, it’s pretty clear they had unpleasant home lives. I doubt that Mrs Hardiman hitting them with a plimsoll for their misdemeanours helped matters either.

Gentle parenting has a lot to answer for..

Gentle parenting done right has firm boundaries

Children don’t fear their parents these days like they did many years ago.

That's a good thing.

Social media and use of devices has been linked to behavioural issues

Parents use them too often in front of their children and children are adopting the same behaviours. Would definitely recommend watching the social dilemma on Netflix.

Generational poor parenting, exacerbated by mental health and alcohol/substance abuse. Communities of worklessness and reliance on benefits. The acceptance of ‘good enough’ parenting when it is far from. The belief that everyone has a right to be a parent and keep their child when actually, they are causing them trauma and harm, day in day out. Attachment issues wrongly diagnosed as ADHD due to the similar presentations.

Teachers are seen as just people who have a job rather than expertise that is to be respected.

Teachers should be respected by their pupils but they aren't gods and their expertise isn't always that extensive.

Loads of reasons.

Children used to be threatened with beatings and get them if they didn't do as they were told by parents and teachers, so they behaved out of fear.

They burned off more energy, walking to school, running around outside after school until dusk, helping families with physical jobs like mowing the lawn with a hand mower etc. So when they sat down they were less fidgety.

They spent more time away from adults in mixed age groups and gangs, where they learned social skills and behaviour - lots of pecking order stuff. These days they spend more time with parents who think they are the most precious creatures on earth, so they don't learn early on that it's fine not to get what you want when you want it.

The "Be happy" message has been shoved down their throats by schools, parents, media. They think unless they are happy 100% of the time, life is awful, they are awful, something is deeply wrong. They have not been taught to normalise and cope with the vast array of emotions. I think this is slowly changing but this generation lacks resilience.

Huge classes, huge schools, children in before and after school clubs because parents work longer hours, earlier start in childcare and in bigger settings, long long days .....

@AliceW89

Gentle parenting is about having firm boundaries, saying no and heck, maybe even making your kids cry. Toddler DS cried today because he wasn’t walking in a straight line and was getting in the way of people on the high street, so I put him back in the buggy, because annoying other people isnt on. Despite this, I consider myself a gentle parent. A lot of critics and sadly, some proponents of gentle parenting confuse it with being permissive. If you are permissive in your parenting then you aren’t being gentle. A lot of people need to do some reading about the differences between the two, it would seem.

Yes this. People hear 'gentle parenting' and assume it means let them do whatever they want but that doesn't seem to be the case from everything I've read/ try to follow.

I only have one young toddler so am fully aware I'm still just trying to figure it all out, I definitely aim to be a gentle parent and hope I always will be. But that includes boundaries.

I don't just let her do whatever she wants. Today has felt like one tantrum after another because I've stopped her from doing things she really wanted to do but I still think I'm a gentle parent, or try to be.

I'm a teacher too (well not at the moment as am mostly home with DD). I'm pretty 'gentle' there too. I've had really challenging classes and ones where behaviour was less of an issue - at the start of my career I bought into the idea that behaviour was getting worse year on year but 16 years later I'm not so sure.

@Heartofglass12345

why did you start this thread? So people can criticise parents on a parenting forum designed to help people? Well done

I'm not a parent and I'm new to education so can't answer the question myself. I've found some really interesting responses to do with things like technology, outdoor exercise, increasingly both parents having to work full time etc. If some people use this thread to bash other parents that's not my problem it's theirs

Oh come on, not the same old tired clichés.

Parenting has changed but that's not a bad thing. And it's not changed that much. IMO you have four "evolutions" of parenting (or behaviour management):

Scary punishment based (hitting, aggressive shouting)
Calm punishment based with some reward (e.g. Supernanny)
Positive parenting - more reward/encouragement, very little punishment
Collaborative/problem solving type - lagging skills/behaviour as communication model

Most (good) parents these days are operating in steps 2 or 3. I'm in two minds about whether step 4 will ever become mainstream. Step 3 works really really well, absolutely well enough for the majority of people and tends to have good results for children too. Step 4 is really time and energy consuming if you do it right, so it's not worth it for most people to make the jump from step 3.

Schools are not parents and they are not parenting, so the four "parenting styles" probably don't perfectly map on but as methods of behaviour management, to me it seems like they are mainly operating in step 2, but hoping that the punishments will have the same effect as step 1. That doesn't work, IME. The reason that you can use calmer punishments for step 2 is because it's balanced out by relationship and because it's a parenting style aimed at children who are neurotypical and not traumatised. It only takes one child with disruptive behaviour to disrupt a class, and there are neurodivergent children and (unfortunately) traumatised children in every class. Step 1 type behaviour management seems to work to an extent on these children although it's hugely damaging for them, so we shouldn't go back to that. I'm not sure step 3 works well without the parental relationship part either. Step 4 does work in theory in a school environment, and works with all children including neurodivergent and traumatised, but it's time and energy consuming and I don't think it's feasible the way schools are currently set up. You'd need much smaller classes for one thing. Maybe that's the problem - we're still operating with the parameters that worked with discipline management style 1 and not adapting to the fact we find that distasteful now.

I agree that special schools closing in favour of "inclusion" was a terrible idea. Not that children should be segregated, but inclusion is implemented so terribly that it is basically pointless. Either open those schools again or do inclusion properly. (Like that will happen.)

Are there more traumatised children now? I don't know if there are more or less than in the past. Certainly there are a lot. CAMHS seems totally overwhelmed and unable to operate properly. COVID has exacerbated social problems. Social services seem totally overwhelmed and unable to operate properly. I think it's possible that children who are having a hard time are maybe less able to completely slip away (consistently truant, be ignored by authority/adults etc) like they might have done in the 80s/90s, but they also aren't getting their needs met within the system and that comes out in behaviour in school.

Is parenting worse? Is gentle parenting to blame? I would argue gentle parenting done properly is basically steps 3 and 4. A lot of people think they are doing gentle parenting when they are just being permissive, though, which isn't very helpful. But there have always been permissive/ineffectual parents. Just as there always has been and always will be violent parents and neglectful parents. Perhaps it's more socially acceptable now if you claim that you're gentle parenting. Or maybe people just feel less able to comment on others' parenting or "interfere" with other people's parenting.