Ukraine Invasion: Part 20

[HappyWinter]

Thanks to everyone for taking part in the thread.

I read this as “people everywhere read English to some extent so ridicule in English has more clout worldwide”.

Exactly what I meant. Also our press doesn't show our own politicians any deference, let alone a three times loser like Putin.

Surely a top-flight KGB operative would be able to at least order a killing in English.

As a son of an immigrant, I've watched (with amusement) DF "not understanding" people when they think they are being clever.

And while the UK government might have been embarrassingly undiplomatic with friends previously, I'd excuse it if it is pissing poor diddums Putin off right now.

Surely someone, somewhere must have correlated this special military operation with Putins struggle to suppress his own natural homosexual tendencies ?

Birmingham cathedral is quite worth a visit if that hits home. Two KGB thugs wouldn't stand out at all ...

Mariupol's defenders send their regards. Dated today.

Being circulated by several sources.

www.ft.com/content/7d9f69b9-2f04-451a-a0d5-e1242a2bcb99

Revival of "The West" in the FT

Oh sorry if you can't read it! Thought this was a free one.

Surely a top-flight KGB operative would be able to at least order a killing in English

Well yes. Not much room for misunderstanding in "kill this man" :D

amp-cnn-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/04/15/business/russia-sanctions-iran-playbook-04-15-2022-mime-intl/index.html?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16501159147384&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2022%2F04%2F15%2Fbusiness%2Frussia-sanctions-iran-playbook-04-15-2022-mime-intl%2Findex.html

About sanctions, also very interesting!

One does wonder what Shoigu makes of the sinking of the Moskva (assuming the rumours of a heart attack are greatly exaggerated)

Its concerning that Russia is now attacking Kyiv and other cities, following the sinking of that cruiser.

West needs to get more heavy weapons, long range anti aircraft missiles and planes to Ukraine.

Hope Biden will tell Putin to do one in regard to his threats.

Its concerning that Russia is now attacking Kyiv and other cities, following the sinking of that cruiser.

I wonder what held Russia back before? I would have thought they would bomb those cities after they withdrew just so Ukraine could not have them either.

They seem to get angrier and more frantic with every setback.
This is why this is a war of attrition. We really needed to make a stand and ignore those nuclear threats!

@blueshoes

Its concerning that Russia is now attacking Kyiv and other cities, following the sinking of that cruiser.

I wonder what held Russia back before? I would have thought they would bomb those cities after they withdrew just so Ukraine could not have them either.

Well, some of the intelligence suggested that they had never really given up their plan of taking Kyiv, so maybe the hope was to keep it as intact as possible.

Putin is probably starting to unravel a little after the ship went down - another (pretty symbolic) defeat. And not only was he defeated but he couldn’t control the narrative around it.

Pippinstar that makes sense, in as much as Putin's thinking can make any sense.

It would be sad to have that great city destroyed. Let's hope Russia runs out of workable long range missiles before that. They are probably weighing up whether to use what's left for civilians or buildings.

Listened to one military expert who says should Russia take Donbas, it will then have a bridge head to return to Kyiv...

Yes @eglantine7 We need to stand up to Putin and tell him in no uncertain terms that the West will retaliate with everything its got if he starts arming his nuclear weapons.

We must always remember that if Putin would launch nukes over say rearming Ukr or if Finland joins Nato, then he is not stable and is likely to do this on a whim in any case.

But he isn't, he is using the old Soviet tactic of threat and coercion

*We must always remember that if Putin would launch nukes over say rearming Ukr or if Finland joins Nato, then he is not stable and is likely to do this on a whim in any case.

But he isn't, he is using the old Soviet tactic of threat and coercion*

I'm just so aghast and kind of depressed that one person, or even a few, can have so much power in their hands. The fate of the world. If we get through this I'd like to think doctrine about nuclear weapons will be revised and changed but the reality is they will probably proliferate i guess in the name of defence 🤮

Putin has a track record of carrying out his threats and of considering human lives as of much value as mayflies.

I think we have to consider it might happen and work from that principle ... and that in itself might curb him.

redToothBrush's post at 09:41:46 sums it up as well as is possible www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4527642-Ukraine-Invasion-Part-20?pg=34

DGRossetti you said you marched with CND in the 80's. It's a very sad thing to realise that the one country that gave up its nuclear weopons was .. Ukraine. I fear that CND got it wrong :( Dismayingly.

crosspost MagicFox sorry!

@magicfox This has been my worry since day one with everyone cowing down to him, stating explicitly how they wouldn’t engage etc (I know they have since rowed back a little). Even aside from how Putin would vide that, it’s only kicking the can down the road - giving ideas to the next ambitious dictator.

And yes, he has some power, but the West is also choosing to continue giving it to him by letting them see their fear and hesitancy.

@Ijsbear

^Anton Shekhovtsov
@A_SHEKH0VTS0V
·
Apr 15
Ukrainian intelligence reports that 13 mobile crematoriums are in operation in the Russia-occupied parts of Mariupol. The Russians started exhuming dead bodies and preventing Ukrainians from burying the recently killed - Russia wants to destroy evidence of genocide of Ukrainians.^

Does anyone know what they are doing with their own dead soldiers? Zelensky said at one point they were just leaving them. They surely have to let their families know. They can’t just pretend they disappeared.

Euromaidan Press @euromaidenpress
A translation of the Russian propaganda leaflet handed out to locals in occupied Kherson, courtesy of @ValeryKosta

"Russia guarantees you peace&security" it says. But 824 new graves appeared at the Kherson graveyard btw 28Feb - 15Apr, 🇺🇦Intelligence stesses

Putin has a track record of carrying out his threats and of considering human lives as of much value as mayflies

Putin and the Russian leadership do not want to die in a nuclear firestorm, so whilst its very easy to kill with impunity, once that means Putin also dies, these threats suddenly become less palatable.

I think we have to consider it might happen and work from that principle ... and that in itself might curb him

Surely though if we do that, he wins? he can dictate what we do, even who joins NATO....unless i misunderstand you.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@Ijsbear

^Anton Shekhovtsov
@A_SHEKH0VTS0V
·
Apr 15
Ukrainian intelligence reports that 13 mobile crematoriums are in operation in the Russia-occupied parts of Mariupol. The Russians started exhuming dead bodies and preventing Ukrainians from burying the recently killed - Russia wants to destroy evidence of genocide of Ukrainians.^

Does anyone know what they are doing with their own dead soldiers? Zelensky said at one point they were just leaving them. They surely have to let their families know. They can’t just pretend they disappeared.[/quote]
Ukraine said they had a large number of Russian bodies in cold storage that were unclaimed by the state.

I forget the number and I can't find the tweets that refer to it. I THINK the number was a staggering 7000 dead bodies.

So Ukraine certainly have offered the dead for repatriation. Its just that Russia have not responded to this offer.

speechless

twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1515342769119805444

bah, the screenshot didnt upload

@ScrollingLeaves Aren't most of the soldiers in Ukrain from its far flung corners? i think Putin will let their deaths be leaked out over a very long period of time.....

Perhaps by allowing us to believe 100s of '000s of ukrainians have been deported, it means he can deny Genocide and say they are in Russia, living happily but stop access to these "camps"

This is why we can't give in to Putin, if we do, he wont stop.