Ukraine Invasion: Part 20

[HappyWinter]

Thanks to everyone for taking part in the thread.

We have got to day 50 without nukes being used.

I was never losing sleep over this - because we have lived with a nuclear threat all these decades really and life goes on, there's nothing I can personally do about it.

However, as Russia's war peters on ineffectually, they are looking less and less fearsome from this end, whatever the reality may be in terms of their stockpiles.

It's possible the Russian ire with Britain is simply a language thing. When British press openly talk of Putins small penis, and overcompensating, along with all related failures of the Russian military (after all, if your leader can't get it up, how effective can you be ???) the rest of the world can read and understand it almost intuitively. Whereas - and this isn't a dig, just an observation - chatter in other countries in other languages doesn't travel so well.

I read this as “people everywhere read English to some extent so ridicule in English has more clout worldwide”.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

I know what you mean, but really, the meaning and more importantly, the usage, is not that difficult to understand.

Yes, there are cultural differences in language usage, and we can see that when we read the Russian media, and Russian official propaganda language is very interesting in its chunky Stalinist glory, but there are language professionals to help with that on both sides.

Heh, yes, it is all very Stalinist isn't it, completely with deportations and arbitrary arrests. Solzhenitsyn's ghost must be weeping.

This chatter doesn't travel well in some English speaking countries as well, American usage of English is much more conservative.

Heh, yes, it is all very Stalinist isn't it, completely with deportations and arbitrary arrests. Solzhenitsyn's ghost must be weeping.

Yes and they are quite keen on using derogatory and insulting language, just in a very pompous way.

@toastfiend that’s how I interpreted it too, they keep talking about how nato and the us are creating global instabilities be it from this or economically like they’ve not cottoned onto the fact that none of this would be happening had they not invaded.

I hugely dislike how the talk has turned v much towards tactical nukes over the past couple of days (my trigger word for panic 🤦🏽‍♀️) but I suppose it means that Russia are being pushed to their limits.

I do think though whilst they/putin seem to have handed us a lot of empty threats up until now they must have a breaking point surely where they feel they need to do something to demonstrate not everything they say is BS…not really sure what that would look like though (assuming putin isn’t so sad about his tiny Willy that he wants to end the world)

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

It's possible the Russian ire with Britain is simply a language thing. When British press openly talk of Putins small penis, and overcompensating, along with all related failures of the Russian military (after all, if your leader can't get it up, how effective can you be ???) the rest of the world can read and understand it almost intuitively. Whereas - and this isn't a dig, just an observation - chatter in other countries in other languages doesn't travel so well

You don't think they have interpreters and translators and no one can speak and understand the intricacies of the English language there?

Yes I think Russia do, but I also think its more complex than simply having those translators. Those translator have to be in positions of trust.

The problem here is the intricacies of culture creates a situation where you do risk a cultural misunderstanding. This can not be ignored.

The way the Russian state is set up lends itself to the situation where Putin is more likely to employ translators who reflect his own world view because saying 'well the west are being funny here' or 'the west are being very reasonable here' isn't what Soviet Nostalgic Putin really wants to hear. He wants to hear his own paranoia reflected back at him because of his own vanity. This is a form of corruption where he doesn't want to hear the intended meaning only the meaning that suits the ego of own echo chamber.

Don't under estimate this factor.

Plus I am not sure what his own level of English is but Id be surprised if he spoke none. My understanding is he prefers to only speak Russian and make out he doesn't know any other languages but can understand more. We should ask whether Putin himself understands the intricacies of english language in its intended cultural context?

My thought on that is a definite no. He is too close minded to this.

So how do you then persuade him that what hes heard or read with his own eyes/ears is wrong?

@borntobequiet

It's possible the Russian ire with Britain is simply a language thing. When British press openly talk of Putins small penis, and overcompensating, along with all related failures of the Russian military (after all, if your leader can't get it up, how effective can you be ???) the rest of the world can read and understand it almost intuitively. Whereas - and this isn't a dig, just an observation - chatter in other countries in other languages doesn't travel so well.

I read this as “people everywhere read English to some extent so ridicule in English has more clout worldwide”.

I also think that Britain just hasn't been as diplomatic. This government have form for blunt, ill considered outright thick headed clangers which has upset EU nations for the past 6 years with alarming regularity.

These countries do have interpretators with the ability to under cultural issues.

This has not stopped the issue of the lack of our diplomacy to begin with.

Biden and Johnson both speak english. Biden has said things that have made his aides panic. They dont have Mr 'They look like postboxes' though.

We have historically been more considered in our language as a country. This creates its own problems when you have a Russian leadership living in the 1970s and 1980s and haven't necessarily clocked the fuckwits running the UK are full of gas more thsn effectively carrying out what they say.

The problem here is the intricacies of culture creates a situation where you do risk a cultural misunderstanding. This can not be ignored.

I think Putin himself understands that, he speaks foreign languages and he has cultural awareness of other countries.

What I agree with is that most Russian speakers don't and some British English usage can be used for propaganda purposes there.

What I think though is that Putin understands it with his head, he trained to do it, but he's not feeling it, if that makes sense.

Maybe the Ukrainians could arrange for every leader to be given a Cockerel, Zelenskis would be fuck of huge, Putins would be microscopic.
They could line them up with the names on to create a visual image.

I think his English isn’t actually too bad, I remember videos from a few years ago of him speaking in English and I believe his understanding is even better. I think it’s a conscious choice not to speak English in public and to only be seen to speak russian

We know from some of the previous posters on here that the language nuances go over their heads.

I think Putin himself understands that, he speaks foreign languages and he has cultural awareness of other countries.

Numerous intelligence agencies and President Macron have commented on how he is currently living in a parallel universe of soviet imperialistic nonsense and isnt grasping stuff like cultural intentions accurately.

I linked to a video with him, on an earlier thread, it a bit pop psychology but very interesting to watch. Just look for the Behaviour Panel Putin on YouTube.

His grip on reality has gone the way of stalin's hasn't it

A friend of mine is doing a Masters in translation. She said that for the first few months they didn't even do any actual translating : they were studying how culture and society impact on how and which words are used.

It's a mine field, if you only think of "We will bury you" that Khrushchev used.

I wouldn't want to do it, and I couldn't do it, I read in Russian for enjoyment, not the current media though, I must say, but NO WAY would I want to do this on a professional level.

The BBC has just reported that Johnson and others have been banned from entering Russia. That just looks like dick waving of the highest (lowest?) order to me.

How language is used in languages is really interesting - I find Spanish can be very florid to the English ear if translated literally, for example.

There is some irony in Russia bombing the Neptune factory when it's flagship wasn't sunk by Ukrainian missiles. The lies the Russians tell are so transparent when you have access to a variety of sources for news and information. The bombings do show that nowhere in Ukraine is safe.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61126391

I’m sure they’ll be heartbroken.

@Ijsbear

His grip on reality has gone the way of stalin's hasn't it

What anyone believes is directly related to what they are told, what they see and read and experience. Then individuals put their own spin on things.

I guess that fairly soon Putin will have a fatal heart attack and someone in the room will also be resigned with a completely unrelated 9mm. Next Thursday or Friday, good timing with Orthodox Easter being Next weekend.

@PestorPeston

I guess that fairly soon Putin will have a fatal heart attack and someone in the room will also be resigned with a completely unrelated 9mm. Next Thursday or Friday, good timing with Orthodox Easter being Next weekend.

Bloody hope so because it's just getting worse and worse and I'm very concerned about his propensity for escalation and what that will look like ahead of may 9

What anyone believes is directly related to what they are told, what they see and read and experience. Then individuals put their own spin on things.

And what they -want- to believe. It's been a sad realization as I got older that many people choose what they want to believe because to do otherwise is too challenging.

If Putin he of the small penis is as is widely assumed taking anabolic steroids for narcissistic purposes for health related issues, then that puts a major strain on the heart, making heart attacks more likely #justsaying it also has an impact on penis size