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Why is the USA banning abortion?

516 replies

MindPalace · 08/04/2022 13:03

It is absolutely horrifying that 21-26 US states are actively considering outlawing abortion. There are no exemptions for rape or incest in many of the proposals.

I see lots of news articles on this eg this one

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/08/oklahomas-move-to-ban-abortions-is-a-prelude-of-america-without-roe-v-wade

But I can’t find one setting out the reasons why. Why on earth would they want to set back hard-won women’s rights?

And Poland as well. It’s quite scary.

Sorry if there is another recent thread on this btw.

OP posts:
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MordinvasNormandy · 16/04/2022 16:32

It looks like Roe v Wade might be gone in the next few years. Scary times.

iCouldSleepForAYear · 18/04/2022 11:10

@BruceAndNosh

What worries me is if the US ban abortion, even if remains legal federally, the individual states can ban it. If you're pregnant in Ohio, is it feasible to travel to Maine or California for a termination?

The spectre of El Salvador where women have been jailed for a spontaneous miscarriage, accused of procuring an abortion, is hideous

No, it's not feasible for a lot of people. Takes a solid day or two of driving to get from Cleveland (northern Ohio on Lake Erie) to the New England states. Cities in the southern part of Ohio are further away and that adds more highway driving time. And then if you needed a surgical abortion, you'd need to have some time to go through and recover from the procedure.

And that scenario assumes you have a car to drive, insurance, enough money to fill the tank a few times, and the kind of job where you can take a few days off at short notice.

Distances and time between points gets even greater the further west you go.

iCouldSleepForAYear · 18/04/2022 11:11

You could fly out and back, but that's also very expensive.

BruceAndNosh · 18/04/2022 22:11

Sorry, it was actually a rhetorical question. It's obvious that keeping abortion legal in Maine is of zero help to someone in alabama.

iCouldSleepForAYear · 19/04/2022 07:01

Oh 😳 my bad.

gothereagain · 11/05/2022 11:20

LumpyandBumps · 08/04/2022 13:54

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

One state had included not aborting ecoptic pregnancies in their bill. Sad
Yes, the state of Missouri ( maybe should be renamed Misery), and not only are they seeking to not allow abortion for ectopic pregnancy they are also trying to bring in legislation to stop women travelling to other states to obtain one. According to the report I read ectopic pregnancy accounts for 2.7% of pregnancy related deaths at present. An ectopic pregnancy can’t end in a successful birth, but can kill the mother. So an unviable foetus has more rights than a woman? Are they actually mad?

I remember reading an article where a women was pregnant with a molar pregnancy in a South American country (can't remember which one, but one where abortion isn't legal). The doctors told her she needed an abortion, but she would have to go to a bordering country to have it. The molar pregnancy turned out to be cancerous and before the woman could raise the £1000 she needed to travel to another country the cancer had rendered her so unwell she was hospitalised and in a coma. And they still couldn't perform the abortion. She was alive, I think because a doctor performed an illegal abortion on her, both the Dr and the woman ended up in legal trouble. It is insane - it wasn't ever even a fetus. And I can see the US going the same way.

gothereagain · 11/05/2022 11:37

DogandMog · 08/04/2022 14:26

Abortion needs to remain legal on the statute books for women in situations of rape and abuse, and I mean that in a more broad sense, including coercive sex.

Men need to start being held morally, legally and financially responsible for the messes that unwanted pregnancies bring. Maybe they should start being forced to think in advance where and how they dip their appendages. There's DNA tests these days to arbitrate disputes.

Deeper than the abortion issue though is the casual/hook up sex culture that needs to change. Young people need to start being taught that sex is for deepening meaningful relationships and creating offspring. And that when opposite gametes are intimately close, there's ALWAYS a possibility of pregnancy, no matter what contraception is used. Both sexes using each other as living sex robots in throwaway encounters is as depressing and dehumanising as it gets.

You don't think unwanted pregnancy happens within loving marriages?

You don't think some people would choose abortion because they are in a loving marriage? Or that some people will choose to terminate a pregnancy due to conditions incompatible with life?

Sex is not just for procreation.

gothereagain · 11/05/2022 12:03

Ddot · 09/04/2022 08:34

When abortion is used as a birth control it's wrong and I dont think any body would think it's not. But banning across the board is also wrong, rape, incest, severe birth defects and just because the mother can't physically or mentally cope should be a factor. I worked with someone who had gone through 3 abortions bloody 3, use a condom love

No I don't think it is wrong. I'd prefer that woman to have other birth control options but I can imagine a number of scenarios in which she wouldn't have - usually abusive relationships and rape.

Parker231 · 11/05/2022 12:21

The reason for the abortion is irrelevant - an unwanted pregnancy , rape, failed birth control, illness, financial reasons or the family is already complete - it’s the womens body - her choice.

voldr · 11/05/2022 13:17

Uh, is David Alton still kicking about?

HelloBarkness · 11/05/2022 14:34

NotBlueforYou · 08/04/2022 17:43

Whatever your personal beliefs on abortion. The fact is that woman have always gotten abortions, and they always will get abortions. Backstreet abortions would likely be more traumatic to the woman and the foetus than most clinical ones. So, providing woman with a safe option is important. Women should have the right to decide about their own bodies, especially in cases such as rape and ectopic pregnancies.

However, there are some aspects of current abortion practices that are utterly indefensible. The ableist and eugenic practices that are happening right now in this country are shocking. The current abortion laws in the UK regarding disabled foetuses are just legalised and socially accepted genocide of a group of people with a supposed protected characteristic.

It’s completely legal to abort a pregnancy at 40 weeks if the foetus is found to have a disability, including something like a cleft lip which is completely fixable with surgery and after surgery will have no lifelong implication other than a tiny scar.

So, it’s legal to abort a baby that is completely capable of surviving on its own and living a normal life because at birth, the baby won’t be perfectly healthy. Say a 1-year-old fell over and cut their lip and needed surgery to repair it, do we say no, let’s just kill them, they will have no quality of life anyway? No, of course not.

Its disgusting, but not surprising. Parents constantly say that they don’t care if it’s a boy or a girl, they would love it either way, as long as its healthy. With the huge glaring implication that they wouldn’t love their baby if it wasn’t healthy. And that isn’t just conjecture, something like 90% of babies diagnosed with down syndrome in the womb are aborted.

I feel sorry for the children of parents that say they would only love their child if its healthy. If they get sick it must be devastating. They are unwell and having to be worried if their parents still love them? It must be so frightening, what happens if they don’t get better?

Its considered horrific sexism when people get abortions because the foetus is a girl, so it follows that it is horrific ableism when people get abortions because the foetus is disabled.

And the argument that disabled babies won’t thrive and would have a poor quality of life doesn’t work because what quality of life are girls born into today? 1 in 2 women are sexually assaulted and 1 in 5 women are raped.

What exactly is so unappealing about letting a disabled baby experience life? Even if it is a short and non-typical life. I have an incurable disability that causes me pain every day and I would choose life with the disability over no life every time. Sometimes I wonder if the suffering of the disabled baby isn’t the problem. The real problem is the accommodations the parents don’t want to make.

Women deserve equal rights, why don’t disabled people? Just to be really clear, I’m not proposing promoting the rights of the disabled at the expense of women and their rights. I’m saying the laws regarding when it is legal to abort a disabled baby should be the same as when it is legal to abort a non-disabled baby.

What was the diagnosis/prognosis and life expectancy of your poorly baby? If you don't mind my asking.

gothereagain · 11/05/2022 16:22

I’m saying the laws regarding when it is legal to abort a disabled baby should be the same as when it is legal to abort a non-disabled baby.

Then the limit needs raising. Not reducing. There are some diagnoses that are not picked up until later scans, meaning the timeframe for additional testing and decision making takes the gestation past the 24 week limit.

As for:

Sometimes I wonder if the suffering of the disabled baby isn’t the problem. The real problem is the accommodations the parents don’t want to make.

So you suggest parents birth babies they will resent and don't want? And don't come back with "they could adopt them" because that argument just doesn't stack up. And what about those children already alive? If you already have a severely disabled child and you don't have the time or mental or physical resources to raise a second or even third severely disabled child? Should the unborn disabled childs rights trump that of the other? Or of their parent?

ddl1 · 11/05/2022 18:45

BruceAndNosh · 18/04/2022 22:11

Sorry, it was actually a rhetorical question. It's obvious that keeping abortion legal in Maine is of zero help to someone in alabama.

Indeed. Distances in the USA are so huge that it wouldn't be like a British person travelling from one city to another, but like a British person travelling to somewhere in Eastern Europe. If you're rich, you might be able to afford the necessary travel and accommodation; many people won't- and that's not considering the medical costs themselves.

PolynesianParadise · 12/05/2022 00:18

iloveeverykindofcat · 08/04/2022 15:56

I'm fascinated by the not-insignifcant female support for this. Notably the Trad Wife movement. Why? What do they get out of it? What do they perceive that they will get out of it?

Haven't you watched the Handmaid's Tale? The Wives have the most status out of all the women.

PolynesianParadise · 12/05/2022 00:28

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