Page 17 | Why is the USA banning abortion?

MindPalace · 2022-04-08T12:03:58+00:00

It is absolutely horrifying that 21-26 US states are actively considering outlawing abortion. There are no exemptions for rape or incest in many of the proposals. I see lots of news articles on this eg this one [[https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/08/oklahomas-move-to-ban-abortions-is-a-prelude-of-america-without-roe-v-wade]] But I can’t find one setting out the reasons why. Why on earth would they want to set back hard-won women’s rights? And Poland as well. It’s quite scary. Sorry if there is another recent thread on this btw.

DrSbaitso · 08/04/2022 22:35

Why do "pro lifers" think a bunch of cells is more important than the unwillingly pregnant mother?

Because they aren't pro life. They're pro forced birth and anti woman. This is an ugly position to take so they dress it up as concern for the sanctity of life, even though they couldn't give two shits about the women dying in back alleys or hot baths with coat hangers. They think of women as incubators and gestation and birth as no more significant than a Pez dispenser.

I can understand not wanting an abortion yourself. But to have any understanding of what pregnancy and birth actually do to a woman, and to force her into it against her will, and then to have the gall to claim that you care about life?

My father was the most obnoxious, abusive, misogynistic turd who thought women should be thrown out penniless after a divorce, but after seeing my mother give birth, even he couldn't think of a justification for forcing a woman into that.

whumpthereitis · 08/04/2022 22:36

True to a certain extent, but much of the opposition to abortion in the US comes from Catholics, many of whom are quite liberal on other issues.

According to a 2019 pew research poll the majority of US Catholics identity as pro choice and oppose Roe v Wade being overturned. It’s overwhelming the evangelicals make up the body of the pro life movement in the US. Ironically enough a lot of evangelical leaders at the time of Roe v Wade (which, to pile on the irony, was decided by a conservative Supreme Court) welcomed it, or at the very least were not bothered by it. That came later when republicans found that whipping up anti abortion sentiment was an effective way to get votes. Indeed, a lot of evangelical voters will vote solely on the abortion issue.

MissTrip82 · 08/04/2022 22:55

There’ll be a fair number of anti-choice men who will have demanded, and paid for, terminations.

These types are perfectly comfortable with termination when it covers their tracks. It’s just the choices of others that need to be regulated.

They’re disgusting.

OrangeGrovesAplenty · 08/04/2022 23:21

@whumpthereitis

True to a certain extent, but much of the opposition to abortion in the US comes from Catholics, many of whom are quite liberal on other issues.

According to a 2019 pew research poll the majority of US Catholics identity as pro choice and oppose Roe v Wade being overturned. It’s overwhelming the evangelicals make up the body of the pro life movement in the US. Ironically enough a lot of evangelical leaders at the time of Roe v Wade (which, to pile on the irony, was decided by a conservative Supreme Court) welcomed it, or at the very least were not bothered by it. That came later when republicans found that whipping up anti abortion sentiment was an effective way to get votes. Indeed, a lot of evangelical voters will vote solely on the abortion issue.

Here's a breakdown of Pew's research and polling on the issue. It still shows substantial opposition to abortion among Catholics, especially among those who are more observant.

www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/20/8-key-findings-about-catholics-and-abortion/

You are absolutely right about evangelicals coming later to the issue. Historically in the US, there has been quite a bit of anti-Catholic animus among conservative Protestant evangelicals (opposition to the candidacy of John F. Kennedy, for example), but as they began to embrace the anti-abortion position, they found themselves making cause with Catholic leadership. I remember lots of "strange bedfellows" comments as their positions became aligned.

Thehundredthnamechange · 09/04/2022 01:14

Because not everyone is pro abortion? And clearly in certain states the majority are anti-abortion. It's not that much of a mystery.

Libertybear80 · 09/04/2022 01:31

Because they being in the dark ages. America is no progressive nation that's for sure!

SenecaFallsRedux · 09/04/2022 01:44

@Thehundredthnamechange

Because not everyone is pro abortion? And clearly in certain states the majority are anti-abortion. It's not that much of a mystery.

But in some states, like mine, polls show that the majority of people support abortion rights, yet the state legislature has passed a restrictive law. The difficulty is that pro-choice voters are often not single issue voters, and they may vote for someone who is anti-abortion because they approve of the person's position on other issues.

Polyanthus2 · 09/04/2022 06:27

I'm limited experience in the us - church features largely in people's lives and if you need financial support for medical care it might come from your church's charity - very important if you don't have medical cover. So people keep in with wishes of their church. Baptist, Catholic, mormon , all very rich and powerful.

RampantIvy · 09/04/2022 06:54

@Polyanthus2

I'm limited experience in the us - church features largely in people's lives and if you need financial support for medical care it might come from your church's charity - very important if you don't have medical cover. So people keep in with wishes of their church. Baptist, Catholic, mormon , all very rich and powerful.

So, will the church pay the medical costs of having a baby, and pay for its upkeep?

Polyanthus2 · 09/04/2022 07:03

I'm sure the Catholic Church would pay for birth - and possibly arrange adoption (they did enough in the past!)

randomsabreuse · 09/04/2022 07:13

Any country that "values" the life of a foetus over the life of any living person who happens to not be loaded and have extensive health insurance is crazy.

Ban abortion if you must but only if you then fund universal healthcare (French/German model at least) to show you actually value life not birth.

How can you be pro "life" only to the extent of forcing people to give birth then expecting them back at work 2 weeks later...

anne2650 · 09/04/2022 07:23

Because they are insane and they want to exert power over people, especially women.

WalkerWalking · 09/04/2022 07:24

The difficulty is that some people genuinely do believe, very strongly, that abortion is literally murder. The people in power, in their ears, convincing them of this, refusing to let them consider the other side of the argument? They couldn't give a flying fuck about the "rights of the foetus". They only care about keeping women in their place.

Commercial adoption is also a massive business in the US.

FOJN · 09/04/2022 07:26

Because not everyone is pro abortion?

I've yet to meet anyone who is "pro abortion", it's pro choice which means unlike the anti choice position we have no desire to impose our personal beliefs on other people.

WalkerWalking · 09/04/2022 07:29

A lot of women who are forced to go through with an unwanted pregnancy won't even have an acces to free healthcare, and maternity leave/rights are shocking in the US. If the politicians cared one tiny bit about women or children, they would make pregnancy, childbirth and the maternity period financially viable at the very least. Then they could think about the next 18 years of that family's life.

(apologies if this has all been said already, I've not RTFT)

Ddot · 09/04/2022 08:34

When abortion is used as a birth control it's wrong and I dont think any body would think it's not. But banning across the board is also wrong, rape, incest, severe birth defects and just because the mother can't physically or mentally cope should be a factor. I worked with someone who had gone through 3 abortions bloody 3, use a condom love

HangingRock25 · 09/04/2022 08:46

@Ddot

When abortion is used as a birth control it's wrong and I dont think any body would think it's not. But banning across the board is also wrong, rape, incest, severe birth defects and just because the mother can't physically or mentally cope should be a factor. I worked with someone who had gone through 3 abortions bloody 3, use a condom love

@Ddot No one "uses abortion as birth control" so can we stop reciting that myth please? For once and for all.

You are also judgemental of your colleague. Why do you presume she didn't use a condom? Most women who get abortions were on contraception, and it failed.

FTEngineerM · 09/04/2022 08:50

@Ddot I’ve had 2, used contraception. HTH.

I’m eternally grateful I was afforded the opportunity and will forever fight where necessary to allow others the same.

DrSbaitso · 09/04/2022 08:56

When abortion is used as a birth woman control it's wrong

FIFY.

Peregrina · 09/04/2022 08:57

Should have been the bloke who used the condom - although there was a female version, which I don't think is sold in the UK anymore.

speakout · 09/04/2022 09:00

It's hard to read the internalised misogyny on this thread.

If you don't agree with abortion then don't have one.
Quite simple.

FOJN · 09/04/2022 09:05

When abortion is used as a birth control it's wrong

Do you have any evidence abortion is being used in this way? Insurance companies in 26 states are not obliged to cover termination in their coverage so condoms are probably cheaper.

RampantIvy · 09/04/2022 09:08

If you don't agree with abortion then don't have one.

Agreed, and don't force your ideas on other people.

Patapouf · 09/04/2022 09:10

@Brideandprejudice

Some people bare for it and some are against it so obviously things will move in both directions.

You might find it hard to believe that they're thinking about making them illegal, but others find it equally horrifying that they are legal.

Isn't giving women bodily autonomy horrifying!!!

Isn't the idea of an unwanted child not being born into poverty and suffering a terrible thought!!!

Isn't is atrocious that some people don't want women to be lumbered with the responsibility of a child they don't want/didn't plan/ a pregnant as a result of SA.

Fuck me. If you don't like abortions don't fucking have one, I won't make you. You don't get to police womens bodies or choices.

Original poster

MindPalace · 09/04/2022 09:12

A poster posted this on the Feminism: sex and gender board. I hope they don’t mind if I repost it here, as it seems very relevant to this discussion.

STARR COUNTY, Texas (ValleyCentral) — A woman has been charged with murder after authorities say she performed a “self-induced abortion.”

www.tpr.org/news/2022-04-08/texas-woman-charged-with-murder-for-self-induced-abortion

I wonder what must be going through a medical professional’s head to report a woman in these circumstances. Is this what the future looks like?

(Thanks very much to the poster)

OP posts: