Why is the USA banning abortion?

[MindPalace]

It is absolutely horrifying that 21-26 US states are actively considering outlawing abortion. There are no exemptions for rape or incest in many of the proposals.

I see lots of news articles on this eg this one

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/08/oklahomas-move-to-ban-abortions-is-a-prelude-of-america-without-roe-v-wade

But I can’t find one setting out the reasons why. Why on earth would they want to set back hard-won women’s rights?

And Poland as well. It’s quite scary.

Sorry if there is another recent thread on this btw.

@Ddot

When abortion is used as a birth control it's wrong and I dont think any body would think it's not. But banning across the board is also wrong, rape, incest, severe birth defects and just because the mother can't physically or mentally cope should be a factor. I worked with someone who had gone through 3 abortions bloody 3, use a condom love

But actually why do you think it's wrong ? If a woman has unprotected sex and end up with an unwanted pregnancy why is it wrong to have an abortion? Or because she didn't use contraception should she be punished by having to carry the pregnancy to term and have an unwanted baby ? There are a lot of ethical and moral issues with abortion but forcing a pregnancy is in my opinion far worse than an abortion. And ah abortion is pretty unpleasant as a procedure I don't think anyone would choose it as contraception .

A woman who uses abortion as contraception is most likely in an abusive relationship where she can't use ordinary contraception. And abuse often ramps up in pregnancy and early motherhood when the woman is perceived by the abuser to be trapped. Keeping a woman constantly pregnant is a known control tactic.

Tell me again about how pro life and morally righteous you guys are.

The US is a different country - and a different continent. As can be seen by the laws different states have different laws.
I'm annoyed people are saying it could happen here. Well unless there is a mass conversion to Catholicism I don't think so. We are largely irreligious here. Just because Engish is their first language (only just) doesn't mean we share much else.

I'm annoyed people are saying it could happen here.

The US is removing reproductive rights women had. Religion is just an excuse to control women's bodies. I don't think it's far fetched to say it could happen in the UK. Lots of women think we have achieved full equality and our rights could never be taken away but some of them are already being eroded. I think its naïve to take rights and legal protections for granted.

There is one state that has apparently banned abortion for ectopic pregnancy. Which means either the mother dies or gets convicted of murder. Scary times

@FOJN

I'm annoyed people are saying it could happen here.

The US is removing reproductive rights women had. Religion is just an excuse to control women's bodies. I don't think it's far fetched to say it could happen in the UK. Lots of women think we have achieved full equality and our rights could never be taken away but some of them are already being eroded. I think its naïve to take rights and legal protections for granted.

The UK isn’t a religious country though- less than 10% go to church. We also have a long tradition of being liberal and respecting women.

The UK isn’t a religious country though- less than 10% go to church. We also have a long tradition of being liberal and respecting women

I think you're just looking at Christianity though @Discountclaimed - there are plenty of other religions whose influence is becoming stronger in cities due to them traditionally having bigger families over the last few decades. As far as I know, Judaism and Islam don't allow abortion either, not sure about Hinduism or Sikhism.

There are many multi-faith groups and activities where different religions come together, as they realise they have the same aims. Pro-life is one of those.

@Ddot

When abortion is used as a birth control it's wrong and I dont think any body would think it's not. But banning across the board is also wrong, rape, incest, severe birth defects and just because the mother can't physically or mentally cope should be a factor. I worked with someone who had gone through 3 abortions bloody 3, use a condom love

Wow how bloody judgmental! Why should it matter if a women has 1 or 5 abortions ! It’s her body and doesn't affect you. This really winds me up. Try being supportive of other women instead of the nasty comments. The people saying this never mention the men involved with making the women pregnant 🤬

And abortion is birth control ??? It’s controlling weather you give birth or not for goodness sake 😡😡

As far as I know, Judaism and Islam don't allow abortion

In Islam abortion is permissible up to 120 days post conception.

More of these.

www.jparkers.co.uk/rose-fragrant-cloud-0001691c?fo_c=193&fo_k=f5aa0c832063c338eab2177ad3e9a4fe&fo_s=gplauk&gclid=CjwKCAjw3cSSBhBGEiwAVII0Z3_sSGkVxTOXYRUrjcjU6w31H8Su96832MvrmRr30AB86wBhvKyvHhoCvV4QAvD_BwE

@BobLep0nge

As far as I know, Judaism and Islam don't allow abortion

In Islam abortion is permissible up to 120 days post conception.

Thats good to know @boblep0nge - many of my friends don't agree with it but it's good to know it's there in scripture if they need it.

It's also permitted in Judaism if the woman's life is at risk physically or mentally.

Fuck me. If you don't like abortions don't fucking have one, I won't make you. You don't get to police womens bodies or choices

And this is the only sensible answer on the matter.

Why do you care if another woman decides to have an abortion?

People who are against it, how on Earth does it affect your life in anyway?

Orthodox Jews tend to allow very early abortion (up to 40 days) but after that, only if the mother's life or health is in danger. Reform Jews are usually liberal about abortion.

Evangelical Christians have fuck all to do with Christianity.

I see very little judge not lest ye be judged, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, why do you judge your brother and sister, why do you judge them with contempt, we will all stand before god's judgement seat, do not condemn and you will not be condemned, there is only one lawgiver and judge, who are you to judge, etc

I mean, I could go on all day but I think it's clear that these people will have a lot to explain when they stand before their god!

I can only assume they don't actually believe or they would follow the teachings instead of using Jesus to justify their hatred.

The UK isn’t a religious country though- less than 10% go to church. We also have a long tradition of being liberal and respecting women.

As I said religion is an excuse so I don't think church attendance is particularly relevant. Our tradition of liberal values and respecting women (I'm not sure our society truly respects women or treats them as having equal value to men) is actually very short, women did not have the right to equal pay until 1970 and marital rape wasn't made a criminal offence until 1991. Laws legalising abortion under certain conditions came in to force in 1968, just 5 years before Roe Vs Wade in the US.

Do I think abortion laws in the UK will be repealed? Probably not. Do I think it could happen? Yes, if we become complacent and assume women's reproductive rights are a done deal. The US shows us that's not the case.

I can only assume they don't actually believe or they would follow the teachings instead of using Jesus to justify their hatred.

This is how I interpret it. Death penalty - fine.
Right to bear arms no matter the cost to human life - fine.
Women dying from pregnancy complications - fine if the baby is saved at the expense of the mother.

How can humans who claim to believe in a God think they are the arbiters of which lives have value.

Evangelical Christians have fuck all to do with Christianity.

It's first and foremost about maintaining white supremacy and the patriarchy.

Evangelical Christians have fuck all to do with Christianity

They do though. They may be the embarrassing uncle of the Christian family that no one likes to acknowledge, but they’re family nonetheless.

@ABitBesottedWithMyDog

The UK isn't exactly at the forefront of human rights, despite the rhetoric. Sadly, I can well imagine this happening here in the not too distant future.

Oddly enough, countries where abortion is normal and stigma-free, such as China and Russia, are ones we like to demonise as having poor human rights records.

I guess it depends whether you consider women to be human or not.

I think this is a bit over dramatic. While we have room for improvement on human rights laws I can't say I'd rather live in China or Russia!

Countries like Russian and China, are like the UK quite secular now whereas the US is still very religious in a lot of communities, particularly the republicans. We don't have anything equivalent to the mega churches they have in the US, don't have multiple full time christian broadcast tv channels, the christian home schooling drive is not the same here, etc etc.

I can't remember the last election where even the conservative candidate ran on opposing abortion. Even UKIP, which is the most mainstream far right party in the UK, has only gone as far as suggesting reducing the term to 12 weeks (the timescale in which the vast majority of abortions take place anyway), and that was 5 years ago, they haven't really mentioned it since. We aren't exactly overwhelmed with far right party MPs which would need a majority to change any abortion laws.

Evangelical Christians have fuck all to do with Christianity

They would beg to differ.
I have close family who are evangelical christians- they pride themselves on following Gods' word - the bible is a book full of misgyny, homophobia and racism.
I supports men to have power over women.

It is an inconvenient truth that evangelicals are very much christian.

@speakout

Evangelical Christians have fuck all to do with Christianity

They would beg to differ.
I have close family who are evangelical christians- they pride themselves on following Gods' word - the bible is a book full of misgyny, homophobia and racism.
I supports men to have power over women.

It is an inconvenient truth that evangelicals are very much christian.

This. The Bible isn’t the most consistent in messaging, so while believers can just choose to focus on the pleasant bits, it’s not like the unpleasant parts can’t also be pointed out and held up as biblical and indeed Christian.

For every ‘love they neighbour as yourself’ there’s a ‘slaves, obey your masters’. That’s without touching the Old Testament, which Christians do like to ignore. Still the same god though, and while he may have had a change of heart it doesn’t really absolve the whole genocidal megalomaniac thing he had going on.

I have always been pro abortion and that stance has intensified since having my own. My first birth was traumatic and caused damage to me. I can’t see any good reason for making any woman go through a birth for a baby she doesn’t want. The restrictions around ectopic pregnancies in some states are just barbaric and dangerous. I’d love to know how pro-lifers could justify that stance. I’m genuinely curious how they could place the life of an unviable foetus over that of the mother.

The sorry of the 10 year old in Brazil posted above is horrifying too.

I haven’t had an abortion and hope I don’t need one but for many women they are a critical lifeline and the earlier and easier access the better.

When abortion is used as a birth control it's wrong and I dont think any body would think it's not. But banning across the board is also wrong, rape, incest, severe birth defects and just because the mother can't physically or mentally cope should be a factor. I worked with someone who had gone through 3 abortions bloody 3, use a condom love

Ah, so killing a foetus is ok in some circumstances but not for bad, thoughtless or uneducated women. They should be punished. Is that what you are saying?