Why is the USA banning abortion?

[MindPalace]

It is absolutely horrifying that 21-26 US states are actively considering outlawing abortion. There are no exemptions for rape or incest in many of the proposals.

I see lots of news articles on this eg this one

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/08/oklahomas-move-to-ban-abortions-is-a-prelude-of-america-without-roe-v-wade

But I can’t find one setting out the reasons why. Why on earth would they want to set back hard-won women’s rights?

And Poland as well. It’s quite scary.

Sorry if there is another recent thread on this btw.

What worries me is if the US ban abortion, even if remains legal federally, the individual states can ban it. If you're pregnant in Ohio, is it feasible to travel to Maine or California for a termination?

The spectre of El Salvador where women have been jailed for a spontaneous miscarriage, accused of procuring an abortion, is hideous

I thought the whole point of Jesus was to reset things? No more sins of the father, less wrath and more love.
Christianity Christianity?
Forget the old testament, let's follow Christ's teachings, leave the judgement to God and stop being cunts to each other.

But, yes. You're right. Evangelical religious types have a biblical pick and mix to gain personally and have a nice big pile of people to stone.

How can a christian forget the old testament? I get that jesus brough a new covenant blah blah but if the old testament is sept away then there would be no fall of man in thhe garden of Eden, no need for jesus, no need for a saviour.
What about the 10 commandments- are they to be forgotten too?

Thing is whan you start cherry picking the old testament particuarly it gets messy- and ultimately you are relying on your own moral compass to decide which bits are good.
Which defeats the whole point of christianity- which seeks to insert a moral code into free thinking people.
I want no part in a religion which worships a deity who is ( by his own admission) jealous quick to anger and wrathful.
He sounds a grade one abuser, who thinks nothing of mass genocide on a whim.

@MargaritasOnMe

I am horrified by this pro-abortion stance, and find it unbelievable how many people support it. I think forcing someone to carry and deliver a baby they don't want should be considered akin to torture. And I have 3 kids. It's ghastly. Incidentally, I know mn is obsessed with over-population and people not having more than 2 dc and so on, but I believe the birth rate is dropping in many countries and it's quite concerning for the economies of a lot of places. I wonder if this is a way to try and help raise it. I think I've read that other countries are beginning to financially incentivise having a large family for this reason too(which is clearly a much better strategy!).

You know it's not just about finances, right?

There are many reasons as to why women abort, and why should we be forced "incentivized" in to having children to populate this world?

@speakout

How can a christian forget the old testament? I get that jesus brough a new covenant blah blah but if the old testament is sept away then there would be no fall of man in thhe garden of Eden, no need for jesus, no need for a saviour. What about the 10 commandments- are they to be forgotten too?

Thing is whan you start cherry picking the old testament particuarly it gets messy- and ultimately you are relying on your own moral compass to decide which bits are good.
Which defeats the whole point of christianity- which seeks to insert a moral code into free thinking people.
I want no part in a religion which worships a deity who is ( by his own admission) jealous quick to anger and wrathful.
He sounds a grade one abuser, who thinks nothing of mass genocide on a whim.

Yeah. It's all bollocks. Written by men and used for power and control.

@Keithlovessmash

Fuck me. If you don't like abortions don't fucking have one, I won't make you. You don't get to police womens bodies or choices

And this is the only sensible answer on the matter.

Why do you care if another woman decides to have an abortion?

People who are against it, how on Earth does it affect your life in anyway?

Exactly!!! I don’t even get why there still such a debate about abortion still ! I couldn’t care less if the women up the road from me has one or ten abortions, non of my damn business.

I think some people on this thread are confused about what "evangelical Christianity" means in the US. There are many different types of evangelical Christian, and some of them actually have liberal social views. Former President Jimmy Carter, a Democrat, is an evangelical Christian, who while personally opposed to abortion, supports keeping it legal ( a common stance of many Christians). I think some people on here are conflating "fundamentalist" with "evangelical." Many evangelicals are not fundamentalists.

I also think some people on this thread are picturing an old Southern white guy when the think of "US evangelical Christian", when in fact, many African American churches are strongly evangelical and played a large role in the Civil Rights Movement.

If you believe abortion is terrible and should never happen:

Shouldn't you support high quality sex education to help prevent accidental pregnancies?

Shouldn't you support easy access to contraception and research into new types of contraception, to help prevent accidental pregnancies?

Shouldn't you support low income families so that the arrival of a new baby is something more manageable, rather than a challenge?

Shouldn't you support single mothers and reduce the stigma and challenges that they face, making it more feasible for them to keep their babies in the first place?

Shouldn't you support measures that protect women and children against male violence after the break up of a relationship, measures that protect women and children effectively from the threat of domestic violence?

Shouldn't you support strong penalties against rape and a legal system that is actually dedicated to investigating rape?

Shouldn't you support maternity leave and maternity employment protection?

Shouldn't you support pregnant women getting help with the cost of healthcare?

Shouldn't you support initiatives that support families with disabled children? Initiatives that support and increase acceptance of and improve the lives of disabled people within society?

If somebody genuinely does believe in all of these things, then fair enough, I can accept that they find the concept of abortion difficult and would prefer it not to be allowed. I still think they are wrong about that, because the reasons women choose abortion are more complex than these things, but I respect it as an opinion because it is congruent with not wanting babies to suffer.

But most US Conservatives don't support these things. In fact many of them are actively against ALL of these things. Now how can you hold all of these views AND be anti abortion, and not be anti women, or anti women's freedom? I don't think you can.

I accept that some people are anti abortion because the idea of "killing little innocent unborn babies that could survive" seems horrible but seriously, spend five minutes thinking through what kinds of reasons people choose abortion, and what happens when you ban something (hint: it does not magically stop happening), and what it would be like to be forced to go through a pregnancy and birth and produce a baby that you do not want. And what it would be like to be born into a family that does not want you. If you have never thought about those things then you have no business expressing an opinion on abortion in the first place.

Well said, @BertieBotts.

@Ddot

When abortion is used as a birth control it's wrong and I dont think any body would think it's not. But banning across the board is also wrong, rape, incest, severe birth defects and just because the mother can't physically or mentally cope should be a factor. I worked with someone who had gone through 3 abortions bloody 3, use a condom love

Eh? When is abortion ever anything other than birth control?

@SenecaFallsRedux

Well said, *@BertieBotts*.

Seconded. Excellent post.

3 abortions from 3 one night stands is not a mishap.

@Ddot

3 abortions from 3 one night stands is not a mishap.

How do you know?

And more importantly, how is it any of your business?

@Ddot

3 abortions from 3 one night stands is not a mishap.

I'll take an uncommon possibility like this over a blanket ban for all woman and girls.

Me too and if you read my other post thats what I said

Making abortion illegal will only kill woman, woman will get it done and get butchered.

So one abortion is ok and more than one not ok ? Sorry that’s rubbish . So what If she’s had 3 abortions you don’t know her life and what’s going on in her mind .

3 abortions from 3 one night stands is not a mishap

It is absolutely none of your business and 100% her choice whether to continue those pregnancies or not.

What would you prefer? That she gets told "sorry you've reached your limit, no abortion for you today" and sent on her way to continue the pregnancy? She'd then either have a baby she doesn't want, potentially in less than ideal circumstances, and all the implications that go alongside that for both her and the child or she'd seek to procure a DIY abortion and end up either dead or critically harmed if it goes wrong (which is highly likely).

You cannot apply levels of worthiness to abortion, you cannot say one is a valid abortion (e.g., TFMR) and one isn't (e.g., unwanted pregnancy) when both are within the parameters of the law.

@Ddot

3 abortions from 3 one night stands is not a mishap.

It's also absolutely none of your business.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/22/a-new-poll-shows-what-really-interests-pro-lifers-controlling-women

It's about Men wanting Power over Women. Again.

These 'i know a woman who uses abortion instead of taking the pill' stories are no different to the 'i know a woman on benefits who's got ten kids by 26 different fathers and has a 1km high flat screen HDTV in every room of her council mansion, takes first class flights all over the world and leans out her window every morning as I set off on my ten mile journey on my roller skates to my minimum wage job and yells I'm living it up on your taxes at me while giving me the finger'

It's total frothocks.

I have a friend in her 80s who is a retired nurse. She gave a talk recently about her experiences, and touched on caring for women who had had back street abortions (before 1967). She said that the portrayal of the risks from back street abortions in the Call the Midwife storyline was scarily realistic.

I think all anti abortionists (they don't deserve the title pro life IMO because they aren't interested in the life of the pregnant women) should be forced to watch those episodes.

I think the legal time limit needs to be reduced. Except in the most serious of medical cases. Not just because somebody has changed their mind. Hardly any countries allow abortion for any reason up to 24 weeks. Its the UK who is out of step on this issue.

Some women don't even know they are pregnant until this late.

The percentage of women seeking abortions over 24 weeks for non medical reasons is minuscule.
A HUGE red herring.