Next time I go to France I'm wearing a headscarf

[LaurieFairyCake]

And I want every woman of faith (any faith) or no faith to do the same if that fucker wins

(Marine le Bastard is saying women are not allowed to wear head scarves in France and that they will be fined)

@Pamlar that honestly sounds horrific

If I can prevent it I won’t put foot in that country.

Not all Muslim women wear head scarves because they have to. I am not a Muslim and I don’t know the numbers of women who would say they are choosing this against those who feel they must, but remember that Nadya (the talented cook who won Bake Off) said she had chosen to as a young teen.

Next time I go to France I'm wearing a headscarf

I assume you also intend to go to Iran without one.

So Enid you're saying religions can't dictate what people should wear, but it's OK for you to do it.

@ScrollingLeaves

Not all Muslim women wear head scarves because they have to. I am not a Muslim and I don’t know the numbers of women who would say they are choosing this against those who feel they must, but remember that Nadya (the talented cook who won Bake Off) said she had chosen to as a young teen.

And why do you think they have 'chosen' to?

Because they've been brainwashed by their patriarchal religion since birth.

As someone who grew up in an evangelical Christian family and escaped as an adult, trust me, I know of what I speak.

@LoveSpringDaffs I’m not sure we need to rate the importance of each right wing policy. All can be scary.

@LaurieFairyCake

No we don't support women leading major nations if they want to suppress their freedoms

They're going to fine women for wearing headscarves !

Even though these women may choose to or may feel they have to

She's basically saying you can't be Muslim in France

Or have cancer and wish to not get cold or sunburned/are uncomfortable wearing a wig.

One of the few people around for which the MN 'Vile' is perfectly appropriate, IMO.

@Gwenhwyfar

So Enid you're saying religions can't dictate what people should wear, but it's OK for you to do it.

I don't believe that it should be legal for women to have to wear clothing that oppresses them.

I don't think that's a problematic permission to take.

@babyjellyfish

She won't win.

They said this about the leave campaign for Brexit.

position, not permission!

What annoys me a lot is that plenty of westerners want to generalise and state they wish the hijab would be banned altogether under the guise of wanting to help oppressed women.

If you genuinely cared, you would do research and try to find actual ways to help those that have been forced to wear one vs take the choice away from all Muslim women to practise part of their faith. Because the suggestion to ban the hijab altogether is again policing women on what they can:can’t wear.

It just comes across very hypocrite and islamophobic to me.

I won't be going back to France at all. Been once and it wasn't my cup of tea.

@SausagePourHomme

if women feel they have to cover their hair, isn't that a problem we should be looking at?

the fact that hair can be fetishised to the point where it's seen as indecent not to wear one really bothers me.

This! And this is where Laïcité applies.

@Guineapigssweak

Shame other countries don't follow France. Women should never be forced to wear burkas and head scarfs all for a so called religion and to please the men of the religion. I think it is very wrong to call Islam a ‘so called religion’ in here.

It is a major world religion and there must be many Mumsnet women who are Muslim. It is like calling Christianity a ‘so called religion’.

France is a different to here in that it is secular. All religious symbols and teachings are not supposed to be part of public life. I seem to remember that they don’t teach religious studies in State schools. As a result you see a lot less of any type of religious dress or symbolism.
Obviously Marine is aggravating relations deliberately in this case by focusing on scarves.

So wearing a head covering as a women is rooted in patriarchy now?

But Sikh men covering their hair is fine?

Anyone who could get Macron out would get my vote. Were I eligible…

@godmum56

I wonder what they do about Nuns and private schools?

Nuns don't wear headscarves

I spend a lot of time in France. There are places where you don't see any women out, particularly in the evenings. The cafes and bars meanwhile are full of men who harass the women who are out, shopping or coming home from work.
I took my teenage daughter and her friend on holiday before lockdown. They were dressed in perfectly normal summer dresses and by the time they had walked from our hire car to our airbnb they were scared to go out again because of the abuse they got from the men occupying all the tables outside the local cafes. It was a very uncomfortable experience.
Banning the headscarf will just ensure that the women who are either forced to wear them (by men), or who wear them because of religious belief, will be forced to stay at home (even more than they are already).
Personally, I wish that all women could be free to wear what they want, to work, to socialise, without being subjugated by men or religion. I don't think banning the headscarf is the way to do it.
However, the situation in France is worryingly ripe for someone like Le Pen to gain political support.

The Queen had better not go there then.

I'm in France and hope that Macron doesn't win. He's a dictator, who has lied and lied throughout his mandate.
Le Pen is gaining in popularity and only 3 or 4 points behind Macron now so there is some hope that he will lose. Le Pen had a disastrous debate against Macron in 2017, she was unprepared and aggressive, but this time around has a softer image which has been helped by having an even more extreme right candidate than her, Eric Zemmour.
She has also based her campaign on the spending power of people which is very close to everyone's hearts with the increases in prices of everything.
Unfortunately the left wing candidates are either too useless (Hildago) or extreme (Melonchon) to get a look in. And the right candidate (Pecresse) equally hopeless. So it's Macron or Le Pen.

A PP said that halal and Kosher meat was banned in France, this is complete rubbish.

@Motherdare

Anyone who could get Macron out would get my vote. Were I eligible…

@Motherdare You’d rather see a racist fascist in charge? Why?

The trouble is that it's putting the risk and the burden on women, rather than getting to the root of the problem which is men forcing the women to wear them.

Some women choose to wear a headscarf, some don't, some thought they choose, but discover that they don't have a choice if they try to stop. I watched a video compilation recently of women as a joke telling their boyfriends/husbands they'd decided they weren't going to cover their head any more, and clearly being in total shock when those boyfriends slapped, dragged and kicked them - and yes I realise this is only the bad ones in the compilation, but the women were clearly not expecting violence, you could see on their faces.

I don't think forcing women not to wear a headscarf is better than forcing women to wear a headscarf. In either case it's controlling women because they don't want to try to control the men.

@Foreignmumof2

So wearing a head covering as a women is rooted in patriarchy now?

But Sikh men covering their hair is fine?

Sikhism is not a patriarchal religion.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism - all patriarchal. All misogynistic. All restrict only the behaviours, powers and clothing of women. Funnily enough.

You sound batshit Laurie.

The covering of hair/veils/burkas are oppressive tools for a faith that treats women like second class citizens.
France is a country where no religious symbols are allowed - of any faith. Surely that's a fair, level playing field so I'm not sure why you feel the Muslim faith gets special dispensation