Ukraine-invasion-part-15

[Ijsbear]

Next part.

I'm a knob for doing this as I don't have the link and can't find it now so feel free to disregard this as unsubstantiated. Maybe somebody else saw this on Twitter? Anyway it was leaked docs re chinas position and upshot seemed to be it benefited China to let Russia and US deplete themselves with the war going on as long as poss but that they should be 'mindful' of possible nuclear escalation. Maybe that's the point where we'd see some kind of position from China?

@MagicFox

I'm a knob for doing this as I don't have the link and can't find it now so feel free to disregard this as unsubstantiated. Maybe somebody else saw this on Twitter? Anyway it was leaked docs re chinas position and upshot seemed to be it benefited China to let Russia and US deplete themselves with the war going on as long as poss but that they should be 'mindful' of possible nuclear escalation. Maybe that's the point where we'd see some kind of position from China?

This sounds very likely to be China's stance.

@PaperTyger

Trump and Putin can't really be compared.

Putin has an education and is supposed to have a law degree.

He's also been operating within the political systems for year's when through KGB lense.

He has educated children (some) one of whom specialises in pediatrics.

Unfortunately it seems he's not really talking to them at the moment but who knows.

I do find it strange that Trump is still demonised on these threads. If we leave aside the noise, then in terms of actions he: Was firmly against Nordstream 2 and warned Merkle that Germany would become a client state of Russia were it to go ahead, pressurised her to stop it; put in place sanctions on firms working with Gazprom on the project; tried to coerce NATO countries to commit sufficient spending on defence in line with their obligations; apparently threatened Putin with bombing Moscow if Ukraine was invaded (impossible to verify, the claim was picked up on loudspeaker during a phone call).

I don't see the same level of opprobrium for Merkel and Obama. Both of which quickly rehabilitated Putin following the annexation of Crimea, Obama essentially said back in 2016 that the US would never go to war over Ukraine and was caught on a mic telling Medvedev that he could be "more flexible after the election". Merkel's energy policies greatly empowered Putin.

We've seen a reappraisal of Schroder but not those two.

I've not posted much anymore because I just can't bear it tbh. This popped up in my YT feed. He is an ex-US Navy Veteran seemingly on the Russian side who has just posted this just now from the streets of Mariupol. The damage he shows is just terrible the Russians will just smash the cities with missiles if they lose on the battlefield which is what they are doing. Heartbreaking to watch don't viewer discretion advised though there are no dead bodies just wanton needless destruction on an awful scale.

Yes.
He can be all of those things red, he is but he can also be more descerning of information than trump

People from all walks of life are arrogant I don't think public schools own the rights on that.
It's personality types rather than education.

I do find it strange that Trump is still demonised on these threads

Really?

Darn. I'm a bit fluffy myself.
The loudest version of the idea that might does not make right could probably be found in the French medieval ideal of chivalry. You could also point to old social contracts through Europe, seen in old customs and the basis of older laws, where powerful people are expected to perform services or support the rest of the population in return for the power they are given. I see the return of those ideas in the 'trentes glorieuses', which involved the creation of a welfare state in Europe to counteract the social issues created by allowing the rich to take control of the means of survival of most of the people, and only allow tolerate their survival by forcing poor quality work in poor quality conditions that characterised the industrial revolution. I see the opposite in modern times, with the dismantling of the welfare state and safety nets, and return to poor work conditions. You asked.

@DuncinToffee

Yes, did you actually read what I wrote? Attempting to stop Nordstream 2, sanctioning companies working on it, attempting to force NATO countries to increase defence spending - these would seem to be fairly prescient actions.

[quote Yeahthat]@DuncinToffee

Yes, did you actually read what I wrote? Attempting to stop Nordstream 2, sanctioning companies working on it, attempting to force NATO countries to increase defence spending - these would seem to be fairly prescient actions.[/quote]
Trump wanted to bin NATO.

He also wanted to bin democracy.

Obama and Merkel have their failings but I think I'm kinda cool with my assessment of him being an ignorant racist wannabe despot.

Anyway...

I was thinking about those Syrian mercenaries and whether they have turned up yet.

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/18/syrians-join-russian-ranks-in-ukraine-as-putin-calls-in-assads-debt
Syrians join Russian ranks in Ukraine as Putin calls in Assad’s debt
Analysis: Safe in his palace, Syrian leader appears to have given Moscow carte blanche to airlift his army

The first Syrian troops to join Putin’s ranks – an advance force of 150 – arrived in Russia on Thursday, European intelligence officials claim. Ukrainian military intelligence, echoing a claim by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, believes 40,000 Syrians have signed up to fight – a figure that would represent a sizeable chunk of the battle-ready capacity of the country’s entire military.

In the economic wasteland of post-war Syria, the best – and maybe only – state-backed job on offer is one that those who sign on for might not come home from. The vast majority of newly enlisted Syrian mercenaries are trading in salaries of $15 a month for monthly deals worth between $600 and $3,000. Rank and experience in the gruelling decade of insurrection attracts the higher dollars, but even the basic salary is luring recruits who have few ways out of overwhelming poverty.

Telegraph is also talking about Wagner Mercenaries:

Mercenaries tasked with the job of hunting down and assassinating top Ukrainian officials arrived in the country on Sunday, Ukraine's Intelligence Directorate claims
www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/03/20/russian-wagner-mercenaries-enter-ukraine-assassinate-volodymyr/?utm_content=telegraph&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1647793760-1
Russian Wagner mercenaries enter Ukraine to assassinate Volodymyr Zelensky, officials claim

However by all accounts the Evil Gnome's gang have fucked off back to Checheyna due to heavy losses according to reports in Ukraine.

There's a degree of truth to that. But also plenty of indications Trump took Russian money.

Perhaps Trump was unstable enough that even Putin was afraid to take on a controversial war. Let's face it, Trump's sanity is as reliable as a drunken mayfly with its legs pulled off.

[quote Yeahthat]@DuncinToffee

Yes, did you actually read what I wrote? Attempting to stop Nordstream 2, sanctioning companies working on it, attempting to force NATO countries to increase defence spending - these would seem to be fairly prescient actions.[/quote]
Yes I did. Have you read about his 2019 phonecall with Zelenskyy? Or him calling Putin smart and savvy about the invasion? Or his suggestion for the US to bomb Russial and put the blame on China?

If Trump is the answer to anything then as a planet we are beyond hope sadly.

Checking in!

Weirdly this is the very next tweet Ive just seen (spooky!)

John Nichols @nicholsuprising
Trump:

ordered Pence to skip Zelenskyy’s inauguration

refused for months to meet with Zelenskky

blocked military aid for Ukraine

blackmailed Ukrainians for political purposes.

Every congressional Republican but Mitt Romney said: That’s cool.

I wouldn't have posted that normally, but given you wanted to go there and fate decided to throw up that tweet, i couldn't just let it go.

However by all accounts the Evil Gnome's gang have fucked off back to Checheyna due to heavy losses according to reports in Ukraine.

That would be good news for the Ukrainians, tho bad news for Chechen civilians.

@Ijsbear

There's a degree of truth to that. But also plenty of indications Trump took Russian money.

Perhaps Trump was unstable enough that even Putin was afraid to take on a controversial war. Let's face it, Trump's sanity is as reliable as a drunken mayfly with its legs pulled off.

Unfair to drunken mayflies.

@DuncinToffee

Yes, I didn't say that Trump was without flaws. The point about him, "wanting to bin NATO" is speculation.

Going off actual policies, and not who's "kinda cool". The facts are:
Pushing for increased NATO spending; sanctioned and attempted to stop Nordstream 2; encouraged European energy independence from Russia. These are considerably better than anything either Merkel or Obama had to offer. In fact, Obama spelled out clearly back in 2016 that Ukraine wasn't a red line and the US would never go to war for them. Merkel made the previously mentioned policies. Both quickly rehabilitated him after the annexation of Crimea and made him the power broker in Syria.

But we're "kinda cool" with them because it's media rhetoric that matters above all.

@RedToothBrush

Not going to Zelensky's inauguration and refusing to speak to him (whilst taking similarly hostile actions against Russia re attempting to stop Nordstream 2) is comparable to making your country energy dependent on Russia?

A member of Russia-installed administration in occupied Kherson - Pavel Slobodchikov has been shot dead in his car as a collaborater. His wife, survived but is in critical condition.

So very much sounds like there a problem on the ground and thats a definite warning against collaboration.

Placemarking

Place-marking in a vain hope of keeping up...

Does anyone think Putin believes his own propaganda, e.g. that that senior Russian General was killed in the battle to “liberate Mariupol from the Nazis” or that Russian speakers in Donetsk/Luhansk were being massacred by Ukrainian forces?

@Ijsbear

... talking of the Kyiv Independent

^The Kyiv Independent
@KyivIndependent
·
36m
⚡️ Workers of Chornobyl nuclear power plant evacuated.

64 people trapped at the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant, occupied by Russia, were released. 46 employees volunteered to take their place and traveled to the occupied facility.^

Oh I'm glad those workers have been released after so long, and brave of the volunteers going in. Hopeful sign that they want to keep everything ok there.

Thanks for the new thread.

I think this definitely pours cold water all over the 'progress on negotiations' and overally optimistic narrative that seems to have randomly appeared from someones fantasy land.

Natasha Bertrand @NatashaBertrand
Details on the secretive Russia-Ukraine negotiations remain scant as many NATO countries, including the US, remain on the outside looking in. One European defense official called the talks "a bit of a dark avenue right now” for the west.

The Biden administration still sees no indication that Putin is willing or ready to deescalate the conflict -- making it difficult for US officials to be optimistic about the current state of negotiations, one source familiar with the situation said.

Jeffrey Evan Gold @jeffgoldesq
Zelensky to @FareedZakaria, today, there is no settlement unless 1. Ukraine has security guarantees from NATO or from individual nations and 2. Russians leave Ukraine including occupied territory of Ukraine.

edition.cnn.com/2022/03/20/politics/russia-ukraine-negotiations-us-nato/index.html
US and NATO officials struggle to decipher status of negotiations between Russia and Ukraine

US and NATO officials believe Russian President Vladimir Putin has not backed off his original demands in talks with Ukraine, and there is a heavy dose of skepticism in Western capitals about how credible Moscow's engagement truly is -- even as the status of those negotiations remains difficult to decipher, according to multiple sources briefed on the situation.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has recently indicated he is willing to consider some concessions to Russia to help bring an end to the violence, including a neutrality policy -- albeit one underpinned by robust security guarantees, raising more questions about the current state of talks and specific elements of any peace deal that may be under consideration.

"I'm ready for negotiations with (Putin). I was ready for the last two years. And I think that without negotiations, we cannot end this war," Zelensky told CNN's Fareed Zakaria in an exclusive interview Sunday. But he warned that any failure of negotiation attempts fail could lead to "a third World War."

@PuzzledObserver

Does anyone think Putin believes his own propaganda, e.g. that that senior Russian General was killed in the battle to “liberate Mariupol from the Nazis” or that Russian speakers in Donetsk/Luhansk were being massacred by Ukrainian forces?

Yes, it's 'his truth' and I would imagine no one close to him has the guts to tell him otherwise (yet).