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Ukraine-invasion-part-15

999 replies

Ijsbear · 20/03/2022 16:14

Next part.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
MagicFox · 20/03/2022 17:34

@PestorPeston

Maybe the nice Mr Putin will be bobbing around in the bath tub one day and have the sudden realisation that he has become so selfish and corrupt that it is he who is the real traitor. I'm not holding my breath.
I had a fantasy that he might have a near death experience where his eyes were opened to all the pain he's responsible for and he comes back totally changed and the world is made different!
PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 17:35

Omg people dip in and out of these threads;
They can't be expected to read all previous one's 🤣 of what's essentially old news.

Agnes yes that's a possibility but this time I think they are hoping within 6 weeks Putin will literally have run out of money or be killed.

DuncinToffee · 20/03/2022 17:38

Russian officials have confirmed that the deputy commander of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, Captain 1st Rank Andrei Paly, died in combat in Mariupol.

Ukrainian sources have reported the deaths of five Russian generals. Russia has only officially confirmed one of these casualties - Gen Andrei Sukhovetsky.

BBC reports

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 17:41

@Ijsbear

Are you sure that Putin is as insulated as all that Red?

He strikes me as a man who could well look at his laptop for himself and he arrested who was it, the Foreign Affairs chief of the FSB. He must know it's not going as planned.

I don't know.

Some experts on that BBC article suggested he is.

cloudberry · 20/03/2022 17:49

Place marking again. Thank you for new thread

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 17:50

Also i do reflect back into Trump's vision of the world through constantly watching fox news and reading shit off the internet.

Putin doesn't have a mobile. I think he shuns the Internet. I can't see him watching any tv but Russian state tv.

Beyond that i dont have him down as reader of the Sunday Times, The Washington Post or even the German press tbh.

Yeahthat · 20/03/2022 17:54

Recent op-ed in the Washington Post by China's Ambassador to the US hardly demonstrated unwavering support for Russia:

On Ukraine, China’s position is objective and impartial: The purposes and principles of the U.N. Charter must be fully observed; the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries, including Ukraine, must be respected; the legitimate security concerns of all countries must be taken seriously; and all efforts that are conducive to the peaceful settlement of the crisis must be supported.

I think the line about Ukraine's territorial integrity is important. I wonder if it could be a further sign that the tide is turning there.

Ijsbear · 20/03/2022 17:55

And certainly not The Kyiv Independent!

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 20/03/2022 17:56

Russia praised Fox News for their coverage, maybe Putin is a fan..

Ijsbear · 20/03/2022 17:56

... talking of the Kyiv Independent

^The Kyiv Independent
@KyivIndependent
·
36m
⚡️ Workers of Chornobyl nuclear power plant evacuated.

64 people trapped at the Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant, occupied by Russia, were released. 46 employees volunteered to take their place and traveled to the occupied facility.^

OP posts:
PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 17:57

Trump and Putin can't really be compared.

Putin has an education and is supposed to have a law degree.

He's also been operating within the political systems for year's when through KGB lense.

He has educated children (some) one of whom specialises in pediatrics.

Unfortunately it seems he's not really talking to them at the moment but who knows.

PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 18:02

Duncin unfortunately some politicians in the us have spoken in support of Putin? Or words that seem to support him?

Apparently this has been played on Russian news repetition.

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 18:07

@MagicFox

I'm worried that the issues with the RU army means they're going to move to WMDs as the only way to force surrender. What happens then? Are the options to stand by and just watch or to fulfil the image of the West as "sheriff of the world" that fits the RU narrative and justifies further escalation? It feels like there's no light at the end of the tunnel right now
My thought is Putin has to personally authorise this.

He has to know how bad things are going for that.

Thats kind of my comfort on that.

In this sense, might be worth watching if Putin himself mentions chemical weapons and nukes rather than his stoogies.

I'm trying to recall if he has.

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 18:10

@PaperTyger

Trump and Putin can't really be compared.

Putin has an education and is supposed to have a law degree.

He's also been operating within the political systems for year's when through KGB lense.

He has educated children (some) one of whom specialises in pediatrics.

Unfortunately it seems he's not really talking to them at the moment but who knows.

If Putin is in the bunker and not getting access to information you absolutely can compare with Trump.

You cannot make intelligent informed decisions living in a fantasy bubble.

If Putin was so intelligent he would understand the danger and risks of a closed information bubble.

DuncinToffee · 20/03/2022 18:19

@PaperTyger

Duncin unfortunately some politicians in the us have spoken in support of Putin? Or words that seem to support him?

Apparently this has been played on Russian news repetition.

That's why Lavrov praised Fox News and condemmed other US outlets as propaganda
PaperTyger · 20/03/2022 18:19

Putin is educated though, and whilst he may have closed off information source's he's I'm sure more aware of information choices than trump.

Ijsbear · 20/03/2022 18:19

^Jack Detsch
@JackDetsch
·
1h
NEW: Russia’s deputy Black Sea fleet commander has been killed in Ukraine, Russian-linked officials in Crimea confirm^

OP posts:
shreddednips · 20/03/2022 18:22

@Yeahthat

Recent op-ed in the Washington Post by China's Ambassador to the US hardly demonstrated unwavering support for Russia:

On Ukraine, China’s position is objective and impartial: The purposes and principles of the U.N. Charter must be fully observed; the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all countries, including Ukraine, must be respected; the legitimate security concerns of all countries must be taken seriously; and all efforts that are conducive to the peaceful settlement of the crisis must be supported.

I think the line about Ukraine's territorial integrity is important. I wonder if it could be a further sign that the tide is turning there.

They've mentioned this a few times, but I agree that China's position on this doesn't seem clear cut and there are reasons to be hopeful. The shift in tone on Chinese state media is particularly encouraging. I've really got my fingers crossed over this because I suspect Russia was rather relying on China's support.
notimagain · 20/03/2022 18:22

@PaperTyger

Putin is educated though, and whilst he may have closed off information source's he's I'm sure more aware of information choices than trump.
Very true.

Out of interest do we actually know if Putin is living in an information bubble or is that just a working assumption?

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 18:24

@PaperTyger

Putin is educated though, and whilst he may have closed off information source's he's I'm sure more aware of information choices than trump.
He is an arrogant despot who believes in his own divine bullshit.

Your level of education has no baring on whether your monsterous ego is taking over.

See graduates of english public schools for reference.

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 18:25

notimagain, i believe its know rather than poor speculation.

We just don't know the full extent of the bubble.

ParsleySageRosemary · 20/03/2022 18:25

Thanks for the new thread, and also for re-posting RTB's post which really does pose a lot of questions going forwards.

One point to note I think is that Europe does in fact have some different values to the rest of the world. It has two particular themes which have strengthened and weakened through history but have never been extinguished. One is the theme that might does not make right, and the second concerns equal relations between sexes. Both have been, in practice, undermined and attacked in recent years: we can see it in the growth of economical inequality as well as increased sexism, a return to women as being valued as nothing more than sex objects with no other path, in practice, in life other than being objects of sexual attraction for males. Both these tendencies have increased along with the amount of lies being told to force acceptance of them.

Perhaps this is a good time to recall both values, and start to strengthen them, and to strengthen and encourage again the people who hold them. Without both of those, we are no better than Russia. Without them, all there is is the brutality and disregard for life that Russia has shown throughout this war.

RedToothBrush · 20/03/2022 18:26

pure spectaculation sorry

ParsleySageRosemary · 20/03/2022 18:28

China is looking out for itself and will not blindly follow anyone anywhere.

Alwayscheerful · 20/03/2022 18:31

@ParsleySageRosemary

Thanks for the new thread, and also for re-posting RTB's post which really does pose a lot of questions going forwards.

One point to note I think is that Europe does in fact have some different values to the rest of the world. It has two particular themes which have strengthened and weakened through history but have never been extinguished. One is the theme that might does not make right, and the second concerns equal relations between sexes. Both have been, in practice, undermined and attacked in recent years: we can see it in the growth of economical inequality as well as increased sexism, a return to women as being valued as nothing more than sex objects with no other path, in practice, in life other than being objects of sexual attraction for males. Both these tendencies have increased along with the amount of lies being told to force acceptance of them.

Perhaps this is a good time to recall both values, and start to strengthen them, and to strengthen and encourage again the people who hold them. Without both of those, we are no better than Russia. Without them, all there is is the brutality and disregard for life that Russia has shown throughout this war.

You mention Europe's two particular themes, I understand the second, about the sexes . Would you expand a little more about the first please to help me understand.