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Ukraine Invasion Part 14

999 replies

MagicFox · 17/03/2022 14:49

New thread

OP posts:
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25
bluetoile · 17/03/2022 16:21

Also to add, about the planes, this twitter thread seems to be more level headed:

"Evergreen Intel
@vcdgf555
I had this discussion many months ago with a close friend about these kinds of mass plane spot posts. Prior to the war starting, a lot of it centered around how much was hype & how much was substance...And I suppose I still feel the same way. I would see on an average weekday 15-20 aircraft. Back then, I had fewer codes to my database. This could even be attributed to that lack of data...Now some of those Rossiya flights are returning to Moscow or have already arrived. This behavior happens EVERY DAY. The only thing that has changed is their direction, starting off towards the east, due to air restrictions. In short, I wouldn't run off to your bunker over this."

RedToothBrush · 17/03/2022 16:22

On a perhaps more positive note for world order, ive noted this article :

robertreich.substack.com/p/could-putins-war?s=r
PS: Could Putin pull America back together?
Maybe we'll relearn an old lesson

Okay, I’m going to go out on a limb today and suggest something that would have seemed utter nonsense as late as a month ago: I’m seeing the stirrings in Washington of a new era of … I’m not sure what to call it. “Unity” is way too strong. “Bipartisanship” is premature. “De-partisanship” is too clunky.

But something new seems to be happening, and Vladimir Putin is responsible.

Don’t get me wrong. Democrats and Republicans won’t join hands and sing Kumbaya anytime soon. Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy will continue to ambush Democrats every chance they get. Expect bitter battles over background checks, immigration reform, civil rights protections, and Ketanji Brown Jackson’s confirmation to the Supreme Court. Trump won’t stop telling his big lie. Your Fox News-obsessed Uncle Bob will remain in his hermetically sealed alternative universe.

Yet ever since the run-up to Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, I’ve noticed something in Washington that I haven’t seen since in three decades –- a quiet understanding that we’re on the cusp of a new Cold War, potentially even a hot one. Which requires that we join together in order to survive.

And

Looking back, I can’t help wonder if the Cold War had held America together — gave us common purpose, reminded us of our interdependence. With its end, perhaps we had nowhere to turn except on each other. If the Cold War had not ended, I doubt Gingrich would have been able to launch a new internal war inside America. Had the Soviet menace remained, I doubt Donald Trump would have been able to take up Gingrich’s mantle of hate and conspiracy.

Rest of the article talks about an increase in bipartisanship happening in US politics.

Thats massive and much needed. US politics were at a stage where the division was so acute it was a threat to stability too.

Interesting to see it being observed.

Igotjelly · 17/03/2022 16:23

@bluetoile

Also to add, about the planes, this twitter thread seems to be more level headed:

"Evergreen Intel
@vcdgf555
I had this discussion many months ago with a close friend about these kinds of mass plane spot posts. Prior to the war starting, a lot of it centered around how much was hype & how much was substance...And I suppose I still feel the same way. I would see on an average weekday 15-20 aircraft. Back then, I had fewer codes to my database. This could even be attributed to that lack of data...Now some of those Rossiya flights are returning to Moscow or have already arrived. This behavior happens EVERY DAY. The only thing that has changed is their direction, starting off towards the east, due to air restrictions. In short, I wouldn't run off to your bunker over this."

Interesting hadn’t considered the impact of so much closed airspace. I guess the oligarchs are more limited in where they can go so all the planes seem to be going in the same direction.
RedToothBrush · 17/03/2022 16:27

Canada Mission UN @canadaun
Thank you @RussiaUN for your letter dated March 16.

Please see our suggested edits below.

Well the Canadians at least have a sense of humour!

Ukraine Invasion Part 14
Ukraine Invasion Part 14
Ukraine Invasion Part 14
RedToothBrush · 17/03/2022 16:31

Rt Hon Ben Wallace MP @Bwallacemp
Today an attempt was made by an imposter claiming to be Ukrainian PM to speak with me. He posed several misleading questions and after becoming suspicious I terminated the call 1/2

No amount of Russian disinformation, distortion and dirty tricks can distract from Russia’s human rights abuses and illegal invasion of Ukriane. A desperate attempt.

Wtf!

Igotjelly · 17/03/2022 16:32

@RedToothBrush

Rt Hon Ben Wallace MP *@Bwallacemp* Today an attempt was made by an imposter claiming to be Ukrainian PM to speak with me. He posed several misleading questions and after becoming suspicious I terminated the call 1/2

No amount of Russian disinformation, distortion and dirty tricks can distract from Russia’s human rights abuses and illegal invasion of Ukriane. A desperate attempt.

Wtf!

Probably a Daily Mail journalist trying to get a scoop 😑
RedToothBrush · 17/03/2022 16:35

Humeyra Pamuk @humeyra_pamuk
LONDON, March 17 (Reuters) - Ukraine and Russia are taking peace talks seriously but a very big gap remains between the two sides, Western officials said on Thursday. "...there is a very, very big gap between the positions in question," one official said.

thebellsesmereldathebells · 17/03/2022 16:37

@RedToothBrush

Rt Hon Ben Wallace MP *@Bwallacemp* Today an attempt was made by an imposter claiming to be Ukrainian PM to speak with me. He posed several misleading questions and after becoming suspicious I terminated the call 1/2

No amount of Russian disinformation, distortion and dirty tricks can distract from Russia’s human rights abuses and illegal invasion of Ukriane. A desperate attempt.

Wtf!

prolly Dominic Cummings
PestorPeston · 17/03/2022 16:40

Red I'm wondering if the CanadianUN one might get pulled from twitter. A bit like this Civil Service one.

Ukraine Invasion Part 14
DuncinToffee · 17/03/2022 16:41

@RedToothBrush

Rt Hon Ben Wallace MP *@Bwallacemp* Today an attempt was made by an imposter claiming to be Ukrainian PM to speak with me. He posed several misleading questions and after becoming suspicious I terminated the call 1/2

No amount of Russian disinformation, distortion and dirty tricks can distract from Russia’s human rights abuses and illegal invasion of Ukriane. A desperate attempt.

Wtf!

The replies are very funny Grin but yeah, not really something to boast about.
BoreOfWhabylon · 17/03/2022 16:42

PMK

EsmaCannonball · 17/03/2022 16:46

Maybe John Culshaw is a sleeper agent.

RedToothBrush · 17/03/2022 16:48

I was wondering if Sasha Baron Cohen was bored today.

PestorPeston · 17/03/2022 16:49

Russia made bond payments today, only a day late
www.reuters.com/business/some-creditors-have-received-russian-bond-coupon-payments-sources-2022-03-17

The Hang Seng is recovering.

Global financiers are watching this conflict a lot more intently than us.

DGRossetti · 17/03/2022 16:51

A less partisan US may not be the best news the UK has had in (say) 6 years.

notimagain · 17/03/2022 16:53

@bluetoile

Of course we should be free to share any information/analysis, but some on here seem to take real enjoyment in stoking fears, it's cruel and unnecessary.
So that poses an important question - do people want genuine attempts at considered analysis, with perhaps a range of possible outcomes being listed, or do they simply want to be told “it will be fine”?
Roussette · 17/03/2022 16:54

Thx for thread

Shuuu · 17/03/2022 16:59

Has anybody heard anymore about the explosions heard in Belarus last night? I can’t find anything

Igotjelly · 17/03/2022 17:02

@Shuuu

Has anybody heard anymore about the explosions heard in Belarus last night? I can’t find anything
Think it turned out to be planes breaking the sound barrier.
ChitChatChatter · 17/03/2022 17:08

notimagain Thu 17-Mar-22 16:53:07

bluetoile
Of course we should be free to share any information/analysis, but some on here seem to take real enjoyment in stoking fears, it's cruel and unnecessary.

So that poses an important question - do people want genuine attempts at considered analysis, with perhaps a range of possible outcomes being listed, or do they simply want to be told “it will be fine”?

//
I’ve found the majority of posts on these threads to be measured and calm and to me that’s helpful. I find that the analysis here helps bring clarity. As with everything on the internet though, you have to do your own due diligence and make your own mind up.

There have been a few posters that seem to want to stir things up and undermine the general tone and content of the thread but they soon disappear once they realise they’ve been rumbled and that we’re not going to bite.

bluetoile · 17/03/2022 17:13

"So that poses an important question - do people want genuine attempts at considered analysis, with perhaps a range of possible outcomes being listed, or do they simply want to be told “it will be fine”?"

There's a huge difference between "considered analysis" and people posting half-baked fearmongering ideas from Twitter. It seems the latter is often not even posted in good faith in order to provoke discussion, but rather because the author enjoys the panic it causes.

PestorPeston · 17/03/2022 17:14

I was just about to comment that Belarus seems almost uncomfortably quite today and then this popped up www.jpost.com/international/article-701618
There are reported terrorists trying to sabotage Russian stuff.

There is a lot of Russian hardware on Belarussian soil, the local army don't seem over joyed about it.

Goldenbear · 17/03/2022 17:15

'Analysis' - yes but not tea leaf reading. Arguably there is lots of cut and paste of information from all over the Internet. The data from the flight app is just that, 'data' there is no analysis, there is certainly opinion but that is not the same thing and there is an attempt to apply meaning to that data which is guesswork.

WeAreTheHeroes · 17/03/2022 17:19

It does no one any good to panic.

I'm glad to hear there are very many survivors of the Mariupol theatre shelling. That had sounded very bleak yesterday.

RedToothBrush · 17/03/2022 17:20

news.sky.com/story/moscow-looks-the-same-but-is-utterly-transformed-12567609
Russia: Moscow looks the same but is utterly transformed
Sanctions and an Orwellian fear of speaking out have ripped up the future Russians could have had

"It has the smell of the 90s, I can feel it," says a friend. "Shops are boarded up, I see more old people, more beggars out. I'm afraid I can get arrested at any moment."

Russia is at risk of an imminent default on its debt. At the very least it may pay it off in rubles, which is tantamount to a default.

Everyone here over a certain age remembers the catastrophic devaluation of the ruble in the 1990s, the moment when it dropped from six to the dollar to 24 overnight, and the debt default of 1998.

In the 1990s though, the fear came from the mayhem of gangster capitalism and the kind of fast criminality derived from poverty and from getting rich quick.

And

Now it is the police who people are scared of and the pervasive, Orwellian fear of speaking out against the official line. Perhaps as the sanctions tear through the Russian economy, the lawless thievery of the 1990s will come back, too.

And

Moscow has emptied of the relatively freshly minted, post-Soviet middle-class who'd come of age in the 1990s, who'd made some money, bought houses and cars and a lifestyle of Novikov restaurants, chillrave and craft beers in the two decades of Putinism since.

It was an unwritten social contract which demanded political acquiescence in return for adequate living standards and many Russians, understandably given their parents' Soviet past, were prepared to go along with it.

And

In a packed craft beer joint in Moscow, as Mariupol went through its 16th day of siege, a group of young drinkers call us over. They're happy to hear foreign voices still in town. Their first question is about the sanctions.

They're dejected about the future, they feel they don't deserve it - and they don't. I ask about Ukraine. "We had to do it", one says with a look of forlorn resignation in fluent English. "Zelenskyy was building nuclear weapons, there was no other choice."

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