Ukraine Invasion Part 12

[MagicFox]

I see the other thread is filling up so starting the twelfth...

Could this be a move to pressure China into publicly taking an anti-Russian stance? Russia have been asking China for help since the beginning of the conflict and China hasn't complied with the request. I'm sure China immediately responded saying they wanted deescalation. China do not want to publicly back either side as it is not in their interest - but the US and the west would like them to be anti Russia.

If this is the case, could it backfire?

@blueshoes

At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, Redtoothbrush is not the oracle.

If people want to take her word as gospel, that is their problem. She is allowed her own opinion and not obliged to rectify her views or justify her opinion to anyone FFS.

Thanks

I'd rather others THOUGHT and challenged tbh.

I'm trying to explain what I think, but others can think things through in different ways.

As have been pointed out there's a lot of different speculations about what could happen. Most don't allow for unexpected curveballs, which are a real possibility. (Hey no one saw that meteor coming type thing).

I do think that China becoming active rather than passive is a world, and clearly the Americans think it could happen (possibly on the quiet rather than openly).

Good news about the Ukrainian children with cancer landing in UK. We take our little shots of good news where we can find them and hope and pray whilst this drags on. Poor Ukraine.

CGTN @CGTNOfficial
China state-affiliated media
A spokesperson for the Chinese Embassy in the U.S. said China is deeply concerned and grieved about the Ukraine situation and hope the situation will return to peace soon.

When asked about reports alleging Russia had asked China for military help in the situation, the spokesperson said, “I’ve never heard of that” and says that the current situation is “indeed disconcerting.”

China called for the continued efforts to support both countries in carrying forward with negotiations and hopefully produce a peaceful outcome. China is also calling for exercising restraint and preventing a massive humanitarian crisis.

@RedToothBrush

When was this reported?

Thanks @Ijsbear super helpful! I'll get back up to speed now!

For those asking about zoo animals the other day.
www.waza.org/news/waza-statement-on-ukraine/

Well yes Red it has been mentioned many times that the law of "unexpexcted consqences" comes into play when "things" are set in motion.

. "Mind you, Putin's a scorpion - you really don't want to hold him in your hand because he'll sting you"

Ha !!! I was thinking more Capricorn - so he's incredibly senstive?

Re red I cant remember if it was Red or another poster but in previous threads when it was asked - who is in Putins corner someone actually flounced? And China was written off as a no go .

Personally I am feeling far more confident now I have seen the back people to Biden in whom I am struggling to have any faith.

I think Jack/Jake and Tony Blinken are "proper" statesmen.
Calm, considered an probably a lot more in charge now than in the Afghan debacle.

Its all been public hard ball one way that we see - and thats Putin to us
Its been comforting to hear some "hard ball" back the other way.

Being childish about it - on which side would anyone rather be right now?
When is the last time China was involved in a war?

China is also calling for exercising restraint and preventing a massive humanitarian crisis.

^^ How many Refugees is China agreeing to support?

I’ve been carefully following this thread for the past few days and have found it hugely informative and reassuring as someone who is also highly anxious and has been really struggling the past couple of weeks. Sadly I rotate between this, BBC, Reuters and Twitter and I suspect like others this feeds into my panic when a headline emerges that seems like an escalation!

Just to note I also have just seen on Reuters that the Chinese embassy have come out in response and said they don’t know about these requests and that they are basically striving for things not to escalate: www.reuters.com/world/chinese-embassy-says-has-never-heard-russian-requests-ukraine-help-2022-03-13/

Reassuring in a sense - it would be a huge u-turn if they just decided to suddenly jump on the bandwagon at this stage. I just pray the talks ongoing are genuine but it’s so hard to decipher when there’s so much propaganda on both sides and opinions thrown out all over the show for multiple sources.

China do not want to publicly back either side as it is not in their interest - but the US and the west would like them to be anti Russia

China doesn't need to be 'anti' Russia or pro 'the West', it can and will be 'pro' China. If they do decide to help Russia out, either economically or with weapons, I hope they make an absolutely huge song and dance about it, so big, that the entire World ( including every single Russian citizen ) knows that Russia can't even manage a little special military operation for 3 weeks without help.

Meanwhile

Access to Instagram in Russia appears to be restricted across multiple providers. The government notified users earlier today that the service will cease to be available following Meta’s, the parent company of Instagram, decision to allow users in Ukraine to post anti-Russian messages such as “death to the Russian invaders.”

The younger generation really are facing a different reality to what they had a few weeks ago

RedToothBrush

If China pisses off Russia, what does Putin actually do?

If China pisses off the US, its complicated.

^^

I don’t think Russia is in a position to give China a response that’ll be too damaging. I don’t think China would refuse to help them rude the waves through sanctions, which I think we should take on the chin so promote peace & save Ukrainian lives

@cakeorwine

Meanwhile

Access to Instagram in Russia appears to be restricted across multiple providers. The government notified users earlier today that the service will cease to be available following Meta’s, the parent company of Instagram, decision to allow users in Ukraine to post anti-Russian messages such as “death to the Russian invaders.”

The younger generation really are facing a different reality to what they had a few weeks ago

They are all using VPNs.

@Papertyger

Blue shoes !At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, Redtoothbrush is not the oracle.

If people want to take her word as gospel, that is their problem. She is allowed her own opinion and not obliged to rectify her views or justify her opinion to anyone FFS."

Absolutley - and RTB is blessed with a very cosy, ingratiating writing style.

cosy, ingratiating writing style

As opposed to sneering and mean-spirited?

RTB has been posting with clarity and intelligence on a variety of subjects for years now. I don't always agree with her viewpoint and I'm sure she wouldn't expect anyone to.

Unlike the poster above, who has a history going back to ... 9th March.

The Russian-installed collaborator mayor in Melitopol has said that Russian state television will now be broadcast in the area. If the war is prolonged the Ukrainian resistance will need to make Russian-controlled areas ungovernable by making political office untenable and undesirable. (i.e. they're going to start having to do some assassinations or kidnappings of their own. We might even see this spreading outside Ukraine and those kleptocrat bodyguards might really start earning their money if a worldwide Ukrainian resistance movement takes off.)

Pakistain is back chanelling support though and no one seems to care about that?

The Russian-installed collaborator mayor in Melitopol has said that Russian state television will now be broadcast in the area

I thought all the infrastructure had been destroyed so a bit pointless.

I wonder if people have short wave radios? Wind up radios. I wonder if the Russians are going to copy Nazi tactics and imprison people who have such things.

I watched a TV programme on Netflix called Occupied. About a 'peaceful' Russian takeover of Norway. Russia dismissed it as anti-Russian propaganda. Russia has just proven it will not be trusted for a long time.

that seems a possible development in the long term doesn't it battenberg!

I don't think Putin wants Russia to be a satellite of anyone, he seems to go for Make Russia Great Again, but the geographical closeness of Europe maybe makes it more of an immediate threat to him, given that he's sore as all hell that the Eastern European countries chose to emancipate themselves from Russian dominance in the breakup of the USSR.

Out of interest did anyone listen to the The Archbishop interviews today on R4 ? He was talking to General Nick Carter. They were talking about the moral aspect of war at one point, how it is easier to rally troops if there is a moral imperative, less easy if there isn't. How professional soldiers will embrace the opportunity to put into action all their training. I didn't catch the full 30 minutes so will listen again tomorrow.

BoreOfWhabylon

I know.

It was not a cristism?

But Red has been "blessed" with a cosy - ingratiating style of writing and I've seen for years how people can get a little pied piper about her because she is very good at what she does esp "sourcing" information. She can weild some power and I am sure she recognises this and makes it clear?

I remember RED and first noticed her from the days when she was posting about birth choices over in the child birth section, nearly a decade ago.

Howeve,r Even Red can be sneery somtimes, actually now that you mention it, and snarky to people who may fall out with her prescribed view of things.

Unlike the poster whose history goes back to the ........

9th March>

I don't think in all the time I have been on Mn I have ever - been so invested or quite frankly, well ....- to look up any posters history, or how long they have been on MN.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

I say this tentatively because I have been sneered at twice now on this thread for sources but whilst I cannot understand tech side - unfortunalty they do know they use VPN and they are taking advice from china how to work around this

@MagicFox
Maybe he doesnt, maybe he is just a side lined old man jacked up on sterioids and wants to be relevant again.

Way back in what seems a life time ago I read that Putin had asked the Duma for assitance on security for his summer house and he was "ignored".