Ukraine Invasion Part 12

[MagicFox]

I see the other thread is filling up so starting the twelfth...

How does this work re VPN. When Russians are allowed access to social media outlets again won’t they be able to see the history of the war? Or is that all blocked, or will social media never be reinstated?

Meanwhile, the actual mayor of Melitopol has apparently been taken to Russian-dominated Luhansk and is being investigated as a terrorist. I know Russia and Ukraine don't have the death penalty but I wonder what Russia's rules are on that in wartime, or even if they will just suspend the rules or invent new ones.

Recently, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a bill that will prohibit the use of Virtual Private Networks (VPNs) in order to border their censorship efforts. Along with Russia, China has also taken a stringent stand against the use of VPNs. It has ordered the country’s three telecom giants to restrict individuals from accessing VPNs and it also had Apple remove two major VPN providers from the Chinese market to meet the new regulations.

We do not condone any illegal activity and encourage you to read your local laws. However, there are still ways to access a VPN in restricted countries.

www.vpnmentor.com/blog/how-to-unblock-vpn-in-russia-and-china/

[quote Papertyger]@ChardonnaysPetDragon

I say this tentatively because I have been sneered at twice now on this thread for sources but whilst I cannot understand tech side - unfortunalty they do know they use VPN and they are taking advice from china how to work around this[/quote]
Sorry, not sure about taking advice from China.

What I meant is that many Russians use VPN's to get round the FB and Instagram bans.

@EsmaCannonball

Meanwhile, the actual mayor of Melitopol has apparently been taken to Russian-dominated Luhansk and is being investigated as a terrorist. I know Russia and Ukraine don't have the death penalty but I wonder what Russia's rules are on that in wartime, or even if they will just suspend the rules or invent new ones.

The way they will be treated for war crimes they may well want the death penalty! I suspect a bargaining chip. It shows how desperate the situation is getting. It screams desperation

Why has the China news broke today? I expect it's to prevent China from supplying Russia covertly. The talks are tomorrow, it's now a direct question. China will have to actually maintain a neutral stance (and mean it) or support US. If they are found to have lied or supply weapons, sanctions ensue.

Does anyone else have family in Ukraine?
I’ve had such a sad day. In addition to the nightmare I feel a wedge is growing between us. It’s a mess

There are going to be lots of curve balls. The US debt is only serviceable because the world uses $$$s.

The Russians are baddies. Everyone thinks the invasion of Ukraine is wrong. This is what our world thinks, it is not necessarily what the rest of the world thinks.

China, India, Pakistan, Iran and others are all trading with Russia without SWIFT, they have set up an alternative or use local currencies.
The financial implications of this war are going to be immense.

PestorPeston

I completly agree.
This will launch crypto as well - I have seen talk of work arounds for this inspite of being blocked from exchanges in Russia.

I cant recall the "quote" but adversity is the birth of - ......?

Basically, being up against the wall - Putin will find a work around.

Time is the thing, if this gets drawn out or not will be the major thing.

India has been a major let down and I think the Uk needs to pressure them and Pakistan, no more family and visas!

What would happen if a fracture occurs between the free capitalist west and repressed dicatorships though?

Is the next step extracating ourselves from the likes of Saudi?

No one else picked up on2016 "Mr Johnson said: 'There are politicians who are twisting and abusing religion and different strains of the same religion in order to further their own political objectives. That's one of the biggest political problems in the whole region.

'And the tragedy for me – and that's why you have these proxy wars being fought the whole time in that area – is that there is not strong enough leadership in the countries themselves.'

and apprently when he has to go and beg for oil they have just killed 81 "terrorists" in one day.

We are in bed with them, why!
Maybe a huge shift is needed.

I cant recall the "quote" but adversity is the birth of - ......?

Neccessity is the mother of invention.

Papertyger

The Saudis may extract themselves from us when it is convenient.

Sounds like China want to sit on the fence then and “help” both countries

China, India, Pakistan, Iran and others are all trading with Russia without SWIFT, they have set up an alternative or use local currencies.

I hope people remember the attitude of India and Pakistan next time talk of aid comes around. Both are big boys who make their own choices, both are nuclear and space powers, and the poverty of parts of their population are their local choices, the same as for the UK.

Adversity has the effect of eliciting talents, which in prosperous circumstances would have lain dormant - Horace

We've been seeing stories from the major cities in Ukraine but now stories are coming in from small towns and villages. Apparently entire places have been almost razed to the ground and the Russian soldiers have been killing anyone they see. The media have been very focused on the refugee angle at the moment but once we get the full picture about those places where people haven't escaped it's going to be horrifying. I totally admire those Russians who are protesting this war and I understand why others remain quiet about it, but those who vocally support it or only care about missing IKEA and Instagram deserve to live in a pariah state.

I'm struggling to understand why Russia would ask China for help, haven't they boasted how powerful their army is and weapons? They've hardly done anything militarily so far and they need help already? Why did Russia start an invasion -oops sorry, 'special operation' - they didn't have enough weapons to carry out to its conclusion? Very odd indeed.

I don't think for an instant that China would help.

@VisaQuestions

Does anyone else have family in Ukraine? I’ve had such a sad day. In addition to the nightmare I feel a wedge is growing between us. It’s a mess

In what way a 'wedge', Visa? do you mean physically, that they can't get out? From tuesday visas can be done online.

Biggley hope

sounds like a really nice place in the cotswolds.

I know nothing about missiles so be kind. With the fighting heading closer to the border, especially with Poland what happens if a missile ‘goes astray’ (can that happen) and lands on NATO territory? I guess how would you even know it’s a mistake?

It just feels like it wouldn’t take much with NATO forces at the borders for this to spill over to Russia vs NATO.

@EsmaCannonball

We've been seeing stories from the major cities in Ukraine but now stories are coming in from small towns and villages. Apparently entire places have been almost razed to the ground and the Russian soldiers have been killing anyone they see. The media have been very focused on the refugee angle at the moment but once we get the full picture about those places where people haven't escaped it's going to be horrifying. I totally admire those Russians who are protesting this war and I understand why others remain quiet about it, but those who vocally support it or only care about missing IKEA and Instagram deserve to live in a pariah state.

Yes I found this article

amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/13/tanks-bombs-shootings-ukrainians-describe-russian-takeover-of-villages

The financial implications of this war are going to be immense

Especially if Russia can't service its debt's. Who do they owe money to ? How many Western banking services are involved ? are we looking at another 1998 crisis ? Wasn't this when Putin began his ascent to power ?

@bluetongue

I know nothing about missiles so be kind. With the fighting heading closer to the border, especially with Poland what happens if a missile ‘goes astray’ (can that happen) and lands on NATO territory? I guess how would you even know it’s a mistake?

It just feels like it wouldn’t take much with NATO forces at the borders for this to spill over to Russia vs NATO.

Yes, an accidental overshoot is a very worrying possibility.

And yes, when there is fighting in a country which borders a NATO one, this is an omnipresent possibility.

There are no neutral observers in the area.

Just going back to energy situation hearing about Saudi Arabia and 81 executions

Such a hard decision and the world is difficult atm

@Wrongkindofovercoat

The financial implications of this war are going to be immense

Especially if Russia can't service its debt's. Who do they owe money to ? How many Western banking services are involved ? are we looking at another 1998 crisis ? Wasn't this when Putin began his ascent to power ?

Putin's first presidency began in late 1999, and before that he held positions on the Security Council, and with FSB.

He was not in a position really to have been in any way causative of the banking crisis of 1998, especially as that was so much driven by US sub-prime lending. Or are you suggesting that US banking decisions during the 90s were actually a Russian sectret operation?

He knows the FSB inside out, and will have cronies there. The story of arrests (single source, never confirmed) vanished without trace pretty much immediately.

Anyone have any view that their may be positive progress soon with the peace talks? They're talking again today aren't they?