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Ukraine Invasion Part 12

999 replies

MagicFox · 11/03/2022 21:25

I see the other thread is filling up so starting the twelfth...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
stillherenow · 14/03/2022 19:47

@Gingerwarthog I doubt there is any vetting of this scheme. Its an absolute safeguarding disaster waiting to happen

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2022 19:49

max seddon @maxseddon
^The anti-war protester who crashed the news broadcast is Marina Ovsyannikova, an editor at Channel One, says @pchikov
, whose legal defense foundation is going to defend her against charges of “discrediting the Russian armed forces.” She’s already at the police station.^

Ovsyannikova also appears to have recorded a video beforehand in which she blames Putin for the war and apologizes for her work on Russian state TV news.

"What's happening in Ukraine is a crime, and Russia is the aggressor. The responsibility for this aggression lies with one man: Vladimir Putin. My father is Ukrainian, my mother is Russian, and they were never enemies. This necklace [shows] Russia must stop this fratricidal war."

"Unfortunately, for the last few years I've been working for Channel One. I've been doing Kremlin propaganda and I'm very ashamed of it – that I let people lie from TV screens and allowed the Russian people to be zombified."

"We didn't say anything in 2014 when it only just began. We didn't protest when the Kremlin poisoned Navalny. We just silently watched this inhuman regime. Now the whole world has turned away from us, and ten generations of our descendants won't wash off this fratricidal war."

video originally posted by @OvdInfo, which says it learned of all this from Ovsyannikova's friends

blueshoes · 14/03/2022 20:04

Brave woman. I hope she will be alright Sad

Ijsbear · 14/03/2022 20:06

Edward Snowdon's gone damn quiet.

Wrongkindofovercoat · 14/03/2022 20:07

"Unfortunately, for the last few years I've been working for Channel One. I've been doing Kremlin propaganda and I'm very ashamed of it – that I let people lie from TV screens and allowed the Russian people to be zombified."

Clever ! God I hope she will be ok , that is incredibly brave.

MissConductUS · 14/03/2022 20:07

@Ijsbear

Edward Snowdon's gone damn quiet.
One can only hope he's been conscripted.
RedToothBrush · 14/03/2022 20:08

CGTN @CGTNOfficial
China state-affiliated media
During a meeting between U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan and China's senior diplomat Yang Jiechi, both agreed to enhance understanding,manage their differences, expand consensus, and strengthen cooperation, to promote the importance of China-US relations.#cgtnamerica

Diplomat Yang also stressed both nations must avoid conflict and confrontation under the current international conflict happening between Russia and Ukraine.

I THINK thats positive... ?

(actually I'm clueless)

Catquestion · 14/03/2022 20:11

@RedToothBrush

CGTN *@CGTNOfficial* China state-affiliated media During a meeting between U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan and China's senior diplomat Yang Jiechi, both agreed to enhance understanding,manage their differences, expand consensus, and strengthen cooperation, to promote the importance of China-US relations.#cgtnamerica

Diplomat Yang also stressed both nations must avoid conflict and confrontation under the current international conflict happening between Russia and Ukraine.

I THINK thats positive... ?

(actually I'm clueless)

That sounds like corporate speak word salad!
Catquestion · 14/03/2022 20:11

Maybe next they’ll square the circle and target the low hanging fruit

Igotjelly · 14/03/2022 20:17

@RedToothBrush

CGTN *@CGTNOfficial* China state-affiliated media During a meeting between U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan and China's senior diplomat Yang Jiechi, both agreed to enhance understanding,manage their differences, expand consensus, and strengthen cooperation, to promote the importance of China-US relations.#cgtnamerica

Diplomat Yang also stressed both nations must avoid conflict and confrontation under the current international conflict happening between Russia and Ukraine.

I THINK thats positive... ?

(actually I'm clueless)

Yes sounds positive, particularly given that’s from Chinese state media. The key part for me is the mention of the importance of China-US relations and a commitment to expanding cooperation. International negotiation speak for agree to get along.
Wrongkindofovercoat · 14/03/2022 20:22

It sounds like blah, blah, blah and let's all keep cool heads on this one to me. But I have absolutely no diplomatic experience, so there may be hidden messages I am not picking up ?

wonderfullife123 · 14/03/2022 20:23

Sounds positive @RedToothBrush

Alexandra2001 · 14/03/2022 20:36

@RedToothBrush

CGTN *@CGTNOfficial* China state-affiliated media During a meeting between U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan and China's senior diplomat Yang Jiechi, both agreed to enhance understanding,manage their differences, expand consensus, and strengthen cooperation, to promote the importance of China-US relations.#cgtnamerica

Diplomat Yang also stressed both nations must avoid conflict and confrontation under the current international conflict happening between Russia and Ukraine.

I THINK thats positive... ?

(actually I'm clueless)

China needs to know the cost of supporting the Russians, i think can Biden can do that, the team around him seem very credible.

Never been so pleased Trump was defeated.

God alone knows what fate awaits that incredibly brave Russian woman on the live news program.

AgnesWestern · 14/03/2022 20:40

@RedToothBrush that sounds positive, especially the part about strengthening US and China relations.

blueshoes · 14/03/2022 20:45

Diplomat Yang also stressed both nations must avoid conflict and confrontation under the current international conflict happening between Russia and Ukraine.

I am feeling tepid about this announcement, mainly because China still fails to condemn the 'invasion' - I believe they aren't even calling it an invasion hence the air quotes. By not condemning the invasion, the implication is that it is a private business between Russia and Ukraine and the avoiding conflict confrontation may be to the West and NATO not to escalate with Russia rather than an appeal to Russia not to escalate. Not sure if I am being too negative about this. The statement of course arises out of talks between US and China and must be read in that context.

But the bright spot is China did not overtly support Russia or agree to supply them arms or circumvent sanctions.

China is still sitting on the fence, I guess.

Neverendingdust · 14/03/2022 20:47

Not Ukraine linked but I’m keeping an eye on the sudden emergency measures which has completely locked down China’s Shenzhen city and Jilin province due to a sudden surge in Covid numbers. The 1 week minimum lockdown is going to have significant impacts on supply chains once again, with the potential to become worse if more areas see closures too.

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2022 20:56

I'll skip the charts on this. If you want to look at them, you can here
twitter.com/RChoongWilkins/status/1503361316253155329

Rebecca Choong Wilkins 钟碧琪 @RChoongWilkins
It’s carnage in Chinese markets today. These four charts show just how ugly it’s getting. 🧵 1/5
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-14/wall-street-s-china-stock-rout-is-nearing-dot-com-crash-levels

Chinese stocks listed in Hong Kong had their worst day since the global financial crisis. Concerns over Beijing’s close relationship with Russia and renewed regulatory risks sparked panic selling. 2/5

Only a year ago Chinese stocks in the U.S. were enjoying an unprecedented boom. Now they’re mired in a 72% plunge within spitting distance of the Nasdaq’s 78% peak-to-trough slump during early 2000s dot-com bust. 3/5

Chinese real estate firms’ dollar bonds are in freefall – notes are set for another day of fresh lows. Contagion is reaching some of China’s stronger and state-linked developers. 4/5

China’s slowing growth momentum is taking the wind out the yuan’s rally and lifting sovereign bonds as traders ramp up bets for the central bank to loosen policy further. 5/5

Did the Americans just play the markets???

holliem91 · 14/03/2022 21:11

Sorry I don't know how to link from twitter but fount this on @KyivIndependent

"The Hague sets date for ruling on Russia's war.

Ukraine is requesting that Russia be ordered to end its war and withdraw troops from the country. The International Court of Justice will issue a ruling on March 16."

PestorPeston · 14/03/2022 21:15

Yep Red they appear to have, I commented on it at 9ish this morning. The Chinese went into a very different meeting to the one anticipated.

cakeorwine · 14/03/2022 21:16

Russia really wants to be out of the International club, doesn't it

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60741161

Russia has implemented a new law making it harder for foreign aircraft leasing companies to repossess their planes in the face of Western sanctions.

The new law will allow foreign jets to be registered in Russia "to ensure the uninterrupted functioning of activities in the field of civil aviation".

Russian airlines have 515 jets leased from abroad worth about $10bn (£7.7bn).

Foreign owners have until 28 March to get them back from Russian companies before sanctions kick in.

The move comes after Bermuda and Ireland, where nearly all foreign-leased planes operating in Russia are registered, said they were suspending certificates of airworthiness for those aircraft.

So no one is going to lease them planes in the future......

RedToothBrush · 14/03/2022 21:26

CGTN @CGTNOfficial
China state-affiliated media
Russia’s Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin has signed a decree banning grain exports to the Eurasian Economic Union until June 30, and sugar exports outside of the union until August 30, reports the Interfax News Agency. #cgtnamerica

Eurasian Economic Union = Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Russia

Ok... what the fuck does this mean....

A thread from a couple of days ago seems to explain this move. (Anyone else's head starting to hurt with this?!)

Sam Greene @samagreene March 11th
So, I wrote last week that Putin is fighting two wars: one in Ukraine, and another against his own public.

Scratch that: he's fighting four. The other two are a political battle with his own elite, and a geo-economic war on some of Russia’s closest allies.

For the full story without the Twitter cacophony, see this week's TL;DRussia. Highlights follow below.
tldrussia.substack.com/p/careful-who-your-friends-are?s=r

The contours of Putin's fight with the Russian elite are detailed here:
www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/10/russia-elites-putin-coup-war/
Is Putin coup-proof? That depends on how much hardship Russian elites will stand.
The Russian president is gambling that the war in Ukraine will tighten his grip on power. It could have the opposite effect.

In a nutshell, cutting the elite off from the West deprives them of power, turning them from “the protected constituents of a powerful political system” into “expendable salarymen and managers”, cementing a system in which the elite serve Putin, rather than the other way around.

For a related take, see @MarkGaleotti 's piece last weekend:
t.co/n6IyE0eHvi
How does Putin extract himself from this nightmare of his own making?
Paralysed by Ukraine, the Russian president will need his security services to keep him in power

While I’m not arguing that a palace coup is likely, if there are any circumstances that might lead to one, these are they.

But Russia’s high and mighty aren’t the only erstwhile friends of Putin who didn’t exactly sign up for (relative) penury and pariah status.

Russia’s partners in the Eurasian Economic Union — Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan — now find themselves locked in a customs union with a country seemingly hell-bent on isolating its economy from the richest countries in the world.

The currencies Russia's EEU partners have been hard hit by the war -- much harder than those who have remained outside of the bloc.

Now, Putin may be calculating that the role he has played in propping up Pashinyan, Lukashenka and Tokayev will keep them at bay, and he may be right. But those leaders have their own elites and publics to keep at bay, and that may not prove so simple.

All of Russia’s EEU partners have been roiled in recent years by economically driven protest movements, often with the participation of powerful elites. With Russian troops and riot police tied up in Ukraine and at home, there are only so many fires Putin can fight.

To be absolutely clear, the victims of this war are in and increasingly around Ukraine. More than 2 million refugees and countless more displaced, bombarded and besieged.

Tens of millions of people — an entire nation — deprived of the peace and security that are their right. Numbers of innocent victims that we have not yet begun to count.

But with enough support, Ukraine can win this war and its aftermath. The Kremlin and its friends cannot.

Russia’s president once sat atop a system of political and economic governance and a network of diplomatic, trading and investment relationships that, together, transformed Russia’s influence and his own into a truly global phenomenon. All of that is now undone.

So, head hurting (and please correct me if I'm understanding this incorrectly), Russia just stopped tariff free exports of wheat to its economic partners, who in recent years have had civil unrest based largely on economic hardships? At a time when the price of wheat is about to skyrocket?

That in essence, in the context of the above, has got to somehow be about controlling them and saying 'if you behave and do as I say and support my war, I'll make sure you all survive because I'll let you have cheap wheat???? Is that correct??

In return for what? I'm guessing it's probably military power (returning the favour of helping putting down protests in recent years?) He's calling in the debt, right?

Or am I reading this completely wrong?

Russia doesn't have a wheat problem. It has wheat. It can't sell the damn stuff as easily anymore. Its not likely to get a wheat shortage. Wheat is going to skyrocket in price elsewhere. I'm guessing this is a play at trying to control the market and send prices even higher, because this means he can give it out to those who play ball. I'm guessing that the likes of Egypt etc who are dependant on Ukrainian grain are going to be watching this too closely.

Basically, he's going to try and threaten other governments with starvation and destabilisation through food insecurity to bully them into getting his own way. I think.

This is not cool.

shreddednips · 14/03/2022 21:29

@RedToothBrush

CGTN *@CGTNOfficial* China state-affiliated media Russia’s Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin has signed a decree banning grain exports to the Eurasian Economic Union until June 30, and sugar exports outside of the union until August 30, reports the Interfax News Agency. #cgtnamerica

Eurasian Economic Union = Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Russia

Ok... what the fuck does this mean....

A thread from a couple of days ago seems to explain this move. (Anyone else's head starting to hurt with this?!)

Sam Greene @samagreene March 11th
So, I wrote last week that Putin is fighting two wars: one in Ukraine, and another against his own public.

Scratch that: he's fighting four. The other two are a political battle with his own elite, and a geo-economic war on some of Russia’s closest allies.

For the full story without the Twitter cacophony, see this week's TL;DRussia. Highlights follow below.
tldrussia.substack.com/p/careful-who-your-friends-are?s=r

The contours of Putin's fight with the Russian elite are detailed here:
www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/10/russia-elites-putin-coup-war/
Is Putin coup-proof? That depends on how much hardship Russian elites will stand.
The Russian president is gambling that the war in Ukraine will tighten his grip on power. It could have the opposite effect.

In a nutshell, cutting the elite off from the West deprives them of power, turning them from “the protected constituents of a powerful political system” into “expendable salarymen and managers”, cementing a system in which the elite serve Putin, rather than the other way around.

For a related take, see @MarkGaleotti 's piece last weekend:
t.co/n6IyE0eHvi
How does Putin extract himself from this nightmare of his own making?
Paralysed by Ukraine, the Russian president will need his security services to keep him in power

While I’m not arguing that a palace coup is likely, if there are any circumstances that might lead to one, these are they.

But Russia’s high and mighty aren’t the only erstwhile friends of Putin who didn’t exactly sign up for (relative) penury and pariah status.

Russia’s partners in the Eurasian Economic Union — Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan — now find themselves locked in a customs union with a country seemingly hell-bent on isolating its economy from the richest countries in the world.

The currencies Russia's EEU partners have been hard hit by the war -- much harder than those who have remained outside of the bloc.

Now, Putin may be calculating that the role he has played in propping up Pashinyan, Lukashenka and Tokayev will keep them at bay, and he may be right. But those leaders have their own elites and publics to keep at bay, and that may not prove so simple.

All of Russia’s EEU partners have been roiled in recent years by economically driven protest movements, often with the participation of powerful elites. With Russian troops and riot police tied up in Ukraine and at home, there are only so many fires Putin can fight.

To be absolutely clear, the victims of this war are in and increasingly around Ukraine. More than 2 million refugees and countless more displaced, bombarded and besieged.

Tens of millions of people — an entire nation — deprived of the peace and security that are their right. Numbers of innocent victims that we have not yet begun to count.

But with enough support, Ukraine can win this war and its aftermath. The Kremlin and its friends cannot.

Russia’s president once sat atop a system of political and economic governance and a network of diplomatic, trading and investment relationships that, together, transformed Russia’s influence and his own into a truly global phenomenon. All of that is now undone.

So, head hurting (and please correct me if I'm understanding this incorrectly), Russia just stopped tariff free exports of wheat to its economic partners, who in recent years have had civil unrest based largely on economic hardships? At a time when the price of wheat is about to skyrocket?

That in essence, in the context of the above, has got to somehow be about controlling them and saying 'if you behave and do as I say and support my war, I'll make sure you all survive because I'll let you have cheap wheat???? Is that correct??

In return for what? I'm guessing it's probably military power (returning the favour of helping putting down protests in recent years?) He's calling in the debt, right?

Or am I reading this completely wrong?

Russia doesn't have a wheat problem. It has wheat. It can't sell the damn stuff as easily anymore. Its not likely to get a wheat shortage. Wheat is going to skyrocket in price elsewhere. I'm guessing this is a play at trying to control the market and send prices even higher, because this means he can give it out to those who play ball. I'm guessing that the likes of Egypt etc who are dependant on Ukrainian grain are going to be watching this too closely.

Basically, he's going to try and threaten other governments with starvation and destabilisation through food insecurity to bully them into getting his own way. I think.

This is not cool.

Blimey. I think you must be right, I can't see any other way to interpret it!
Wrongkindofovercoat · 14/03/2022 21:43

That's a whole lot of destabilisation, how is China going to feel about that ?

Ijsbear · 14/03/2022 21:46

Are those other countries also cut of from independent media? if not, there's going to be a lot of unrest and blaming Russia, I should think, or am I missing something?

Is he starting to go for "if I can't have my way, Ill destroy the playing field for everyone else too?"

MarshaBradyo · 14/03/2022 21:48

I’m watching Winter on Fire, really moving

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