Ukraine Invasion Part 12

[MagicFox]

I see the other thread is filling up so starting the twelfth...

www-news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.news.com.au/world/europe/russian-units-are-surrendering-as-morale-plummets-the-us-says/news-story/037a5bb34aa49cf9cf7249084c46f43b?amp=&amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16471104500066&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com.au%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Frussian-units-are-surrendering-as-morale-plummets-the-us-says%2Fnews-story%2F037a5bb34aa49cf9cf7249084c46f43b

There is also a link in this link to the Ukrainian newspaper reporting it. As stated by PP it's unconfirmed as yet.

Peace talks now taking place via video conference instead of face to face according to a Kyiv source.

Apparently troops have been intercepted saying shoot anyone

@Hillsmakeyoustrong

https://www-news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.news.com.au/world/europe/russian-units-are-surrendering-as-morale-plummets-the-us-says/news-story/037a5bb34aa49cf9cf7249084c46f43b?amp=&_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16471104500066&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com.au%2Fworld%2Feurope%2Frussian-units-are-surrendering-as-morale-plummets-the-us-says%2Fnews-story%2F037a5bb34aa49cf9cf7249084c46f43b

There is also a link in this link to the Ukrainian newspaper reporting it. As stated by PP it's unconfirmed as yet.

The link is not working for me .

Ian Birrell @ianbirrel
From a senior Ukrainian banker: Russia must print 120m bank cards to replace Mastercard, Visa, etc, but faces a problem with microchips. Main supplier is Taiwan - but it has imposed sanctions. There is one chip manufacturer in Russia - but its maximum production is 20m a year.

www.ft.com/content/503fb110-f91e-4bed-b6dc-0d09582dd007

I did it .

@Papertyger

Yes black bird of course every government must Keep elections free from interference, vote rigging, intimidation etc.

What I don't believe is that human kind are just dumb automons wanderings around being exposed to X news and voting x i'e doing what they are told by the loudest voice.

um ... Brexit? provably financed by Putin-linked Russians?

yes, some people genuinely believe that the UK is better off out of Europe and have thought it through. But a lot of Brexit was based on lies and bluster. Yet it got voted in, and Putin must have been deeply satisfied to see a fairly major chasm in Europe.

@Hillsmakeyoustrong that article is dated 10 days ago. I do suspect by now that there's a certain amount of propaganda going on that's bigging up the whole flagging-morale thing.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/russia-report-reveals-uk-government-failed-to-address-kremlin-interference-scottish-referendum-brexit

Will people willingly vote Conservative again now we've got here?
I'm afraid so. People just seem incapable of questioning this awful government headed by a posh toff clown.

@eglantine7

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/russia-report-reveals-uk-government-failed-to-address-kremlin-interference-scottish-referendum-brexit

Will people willingly vote Conservative again now we've got here?
I'm afraid so. People just seem incapable of questioning this awful government headed by a posh toff clown.

It depends if Labour can get in a stronger position.

I know. Several Tories I know say they will vote Labour under Keir Starmer. Many Labour voters I know say they won't because of Keir Starmer. I have no allegiance to either party and normally vote Green, but it's been glaringly obvious that Boris is a very stupid man who really isn't fit for any government role.

Mmm politics.

[quote Ijsbear]@Hillsmakeyoustrong that article is dated 10 days ago. I do suspect by now that there's a certain amount of propaganda going on that's bigging up the whole flagging-morale thing.[/quote]
Yes it was the only 'news' I could find on marines surrendering at Odessa. @RedToothBrush did say it was an unconfirmed report. I looked as I'm somewhat confused (and delighted) that Odessa hasn't been penetrated yet.

Is Putin himself attending peace talks now? I have seen somewhere he was travelling to Israel

Odessa is a mythical place. "Столица воров" - capital of the thieves and allegedly the birthplace of the Thief's Honour Code.

It's a special place.

@Shuuu

Is Putin himself attending peace talks now? I have seen somewhere he was travelling to Israel

No.

It'll be online, at least initially.

And I'm not optimistic that negotiations are really in the offing. Far too many weasel words around, and preconditions remain unreasonable

Reports re negotiations seem to swing from positive to not

Hard to know what’s going on with it

@dibly

Bluebellsunderthetrees

dibly
@Bluebellsunderthetrees videos aside, what do you think or Putin’s army invading Ukraine and indiscriminately bombing women, children and old people; raping women; putting cities under siege starved of basic necessities all the while lying to Russians about there being a war and misleading international diplomats in the months preceding the war?
Why would what I posted make you assume I support any of that?

The tone of your posts, on this thread and in others in this series. Always an insinuation of nazis in Ukraine. Interesting that you didn’t answer the question though

It is not insinuation it is fact backed up ten times over and guess what ordinary Ukrainians aren't too keen on it either. But I guess you are a far right supporter because you haven't denounced any of it?

So I can simultaneously dislike far right Ukrainians who declare killing is fun whilst also hating Russian invasions? Do you?

I tell you what read the well respected Bellingcat's twitter feed and see how the Neo Nazis disproportionately are in every bit of power and Ukrainians don't like it . But of course someone comes along to shut it down just like you. twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1193922677943209989?lang=en-GB

"Last month, Shatrovsky (left) and Yevhen Karas (right, leader of the neo-Nazi group C14) met with President Zelenskyy in a meeting facilitated by Oksana Koliada, the Minister of Veterans Affairs, and her deputy and VMU member, Anton Kolumbet."

I have some questions...

I've just been reading on another forum that NATO does not invoke article 5, countries in NATO do it. It says Syria attacked Turkey in 2012 and that Turkey made the decision not to invoke.

This is probably common knowledge to most but it wasn't for me. So given the situation with Russia/Ukraine, let's say the war in Ukraine spills over into a NATO country wether "accidentally" or not, it does not necessarily mean all out war? All though I suspect given the situation, it probably would. Does anyone on here know?

I also want to ask (I've been keeping away from the news as much as possible because of my anxiety), has there been any further mention about Russia using chemical/bio weapons? If so, would NATO intervene then?

Finally, I don't know if it's been mentioned on here previously but I also read that Russia will now see any convoys bringing in military aid to Ukraine will be seen as military targets. This worries me. Does this mean escalation could happen very quickly if this is the case?

Sorry these may seem daft questions but I'm a bubbling mess tonight!

Finally, I don't know if it's been mentioned on here previously but I also read that Russia will now see any convoys bringing in military aid to Ukraine will be seen as military targets. This worries me. Does this mean escalation could happen very quickly if this is the case?

Depends if they're in Ukraine when they target them. If not then it's a bit of a grey area, if they're in Ukraine then it would be a legitimate target.

@holliem91

I have some questions...

I've just been reading on another forum that NATO does not invoke article 5, countries in NATO do it. It says Syria attacked Turkey in 2012 and that Turkey made the decision not to invoke.

This is probably common knowledge to most but it wasn't for me. So given the situation with Russia/Ukraine, let's say the war in Ukraine spills over into a NATO country wether "accidentally" or not, it does not necessarily mean all out war? All though I suspect given the situation, it probably would. Does anyone on here know?

I also want to ask (I've been keeping away from the news as much as possible because of my anxiety), has there been any further mention about Russia using chemical/bio weapons? If so, would NATO intervene then?

Finally, I don't know if it's been mentioned on here previously but I also read that Russia will now see any convoys bringing in military aid to Ukraine will be seen as military targets. This worries me. Does this mean escalation could happen very quickly if this is the case?

Sorry these may seem daft questions but I'm a bubbling mess tonight!

No reports of bio or chemical weapons used as of yet, personally I still don't think we would get involved. I think Biden has made it very clear that unless a Nato country is attacked that we will not be getting involved.

If you're talking Nazi's, Wagner and Male State are pretty impressive.

One of the knowledgeable posters on a previous thread said something along the lines that if Wagner was coming, you'd better expect a living hell.

@Papertyger

Yes black bird of course every government must Keep elections free from interference, vote rigging, intimidation etc.

What I don't believe is that human kind are just dumb automons wanderings around being exposed to X news and voting x i'e doing what they are told by the loudest voice.

It's not the loudest voice we need to be wary of. It's the quiet, insidious, determined, long-term drip, drip, drip. Combined with complacency as regards the freedoms we have and a reluctance to admit our government might be deeply corrupt.

Auld alliance.

Power corrupts.

Which is precisely why we don't want too much power above us.
Which is why it's critical we can vote people out after four years.