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Ukraine Invasion Part 12

999 replies

MagicFox · 11/03/2022 21:25

I see the other thread is filling up so starting the twelfth...

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14
1dayatatime · 12/03/2022 17:31

@MarshaBradyo re: fracking

I was listening to an Economist podcast on this topic and basically it would take too long to come on stream (5 years plus) and the UK lives in a global gas market. So even if there was a big increase in UK gas production it wouldn't make much difference to the price here as it would simply be shipped or piped to the highest bidder.

Of course the fracking companies still want to produce especially at these current high prices but the political landscape hasn't really changed as the Government needs quicker solutions.

AgnesWestern · 12/03/2022 17:32

@WeirdArchitecture Thanks for your kindness. It’s really appreciated.
I took some time off the other day, but I came back as I felt I didn’t want to miss anything. It did help though, so I will do it more often.
I’m taking my son to birthday party tomorrow, so that will distract me for a while.
Evenings and bedtimes are the worst.

I find this easier to read than Twitter/Facebook and news outlets though. As usually it’s much less sensationalist and more balanced.

PlinkPlankFirstManc · 12/03/2022 17:33

To prove my point, here's another article in which the assessment is significantly more positive (if one can use that word in relation to this horrific situation): www.americanpurpose.com/articles/preparing-for-defeat/

Gingerwarthog · 12/03/2022 17:37

@PlinkPlankFirstManc
Thanks for this.
Good idea to keep reading a variety of sources to get some balance. This is much more positive.

PlinkPlankFirstManc · 12/03/2022 17:40

It was the exact same with covid. Some very negative outlooks and some very positive outlooks right from day one. Generally I trust the opinions that are somewhere in the middle.

Papertyger · 12/03/2022 17:41

Roussette that's quite the novel there, my goodness.

It is decreasing but he also seems to be more keen on beating trump with a stick.
He undermines humans ability to sense crap. which we absolutely do!
It's our survival instinct.
Time and time again, the collective will of the people wins.

He set's far far too much store by the Russian tampering in elections.
That in itself undermines democracy!

If we can't accept free and fair votes in democracy because the boegy man got involved, because it's the wrong result, because the wrong demographic of people voted, the wrong level of education what hope do we have.

Let's just give ourselves over the evil axis right now.

There are many good points in there and I suspect he is correct that we are going to see an axis of evil forming.
Russia will squirm around sanctions with their help.
I am seeing the world as split between dictators depressing people and democracy.

But I also think he undermines many other issues in the equation.

He also takes it as a given that Putin would nuke everyone.

Papertyger · 12/03/2022 17:43
  • it's depressing not decreasing. I actually feel fine after reading that. I've got far more faith in humanity, reason etc.
MarshaBradyo · 12/03/2022 17:46

I’m not too anxious but I have started realising how lucky and beautiful things are and want to keep them. Very indulgent to say that I know.

Agnes I think it’s the uncertainty and the preciousness of what you have. If someone could totally take away worst case scenario then I’d feel more relaxed.

PlinkPlankFirstManc · 12/03/2022 17:46

I'm actually getting quite sick of people pretending they know what Putin would or wouldn't do. It's lazy journalism.

MarshaBradyo · 12/03/2022 17:47

[quote 1dayatatime]@MarshaBradyo re: fracking

I was listening to an Economist podcast on this topic and basically it would take too long to come on stream (5 years plus) and the UK lives in a global gas market. So even if there was a big increase in UK gas production it wouldn't make much difference to the price here as it would simply be shipped or piped to the highest bidder.

Of course the fracking companies still want to produce especially at these current high prices but the political landscape hasn't really changed as the Government needs quicker solutions.[/quote]
Thanks makes sense

I should get into podcasts really

Did anyone talk about faster solutions?

Papertyger · 12/03/2022 17:59

Plink plank I totally agree.

Seth sounds like paranoid manic depressive driven mad by trump whose been hitting the gin

Papertyger · 12/03/2022 18:01

Agnes, are reading these threads going to make you a better mum

Papertyger · 12/03/2022 18:16

Igor baikof

Interesting Twitter thread about what Russian's are facing in Day to day life. in terms of payments, money, as I suspected crypto is starting to play a big role inspite of exchanges issue.

Worst is the government trying to isolate the internet.
They want one system they can monitor and turn off and on?

VPN will be more difficult if not impossible to use.

Tuba437 · 12/03/2022 18:19

I would say by the west saying they will be getting more involved in peace talks as being a positive. I am quite surprised they haven't been from the beginning. I definitely get the feeling Putin wants to start negotiating sooner rather than later though. Also now it has been made oretrt clear to Zelenskey that the west won't be getting involved he will also want this over pretty quickly. However they both will want to save face and make it seem like a victory which will be the difficult thing.

EsmaCannonball · 12/03/2022 18:22

I found the Seth Abramson essay very interesting. I agree that we are already in a war and it's going to go on, in various forms, for a long, long time, unless someone gets rid of Putin.

We really need to start rooting out corruption from all totalitarian, human rights abusing regimes in our societies.

Russian sailors mutinying in Odessa has quite the seismic historic precedent. Hopefully the seeds of an anti-Putin resistance.

PlinkPlankFirstManc · 12/03/2022 18:24

I'm not saying the Seth Abramson essay wasn't interesting but if you look at the stuff he was tweeting during covid it is obvious he falls more on the alarmist side of commentary.

MarshaBradyo · 12/03/2022 18:25

@PlinkPlankFirstManc

I'm not saying the Seth Abramson essay wasn't interesting but if you look at the stuff he was tweeting during covid it is obvious he falls more on the alarmist side of commentary.
I haven’t heard of him but I do think there’s a strong line in alarmist stuff online that is best swerved.
DrBlackbird · 12/03/2022 18:26

If we can't accept free and fair votes in democracy because the boegy man got involved, because it's the wrong result, because the wrong demographic of people voted, the wrong level of education what hope do we have

On the other hand, it is a very high risk position to believe that the outcome of American (and to a lesser extent British) elections are going to be completely free from external interference in whatever way possible. There actually are bogey men out there and it’s not a matter of hope but of pragmatism for governments to take steps to try to minimise this wouldn’t you agree?

Papertyger · 12/03/2022 18:27

I think the FT article linked is more relevant.

PlinkPlankFirstManc · 12/03/2022 18:30

Where is the FT article?

Papertyger · 12/03/2022 18:31

Yes black bird of course every government must Keep elections free from interference, vote rigging, intimidation etc.

What I don't believe is that human kind are just dumb automons wanderings around being exposed to X news and voting x i'e doing what they are told by the loudest voice.

dibly · 12/03/2022 18:32

Bluebellsunderthetrees

dibly
@Bluebellsunderthetrees videos aside, what do you think or Putin’s army invading Ukraine and indiscriminately bombing women, children and old people; raping women; putting cities under siege starved of basic necessities all the while lying to Russians about there being a war and misleading international diplomats in the months preceding the war?
Why would what I posted make you assume I support any of that?

The tone of your posts, on this thread and in others in this series. Always an insinuation of nazis in Ukraine. Interesting that you didn’t answer the question though

Papertyger · 12/03/2022 18:32

I can't link it's been linked a few times a few pages back.

I found it much clearer and took into account many more variables.

Natsku · 12/03/2022 18:38

Russian sailors mutinying in Odessa has quite the seismic historic precedent. Hopefully the seeds of an anti-Putin resistance.
I missed this, is there a link to news about it?

RedToothBrush · 12/03/2022 18:42

Bojan Pancevski @bopanc
People from around the world are bypassing Putin’s censorship to send millions of text messages/emails about the invasion of Ukraine to ordinary Russians by using a new tool developed by Poland-based @squad3o3 & disseminated by @YourAnonNews via @WSJ

www.wsj.com/articles/using-a-new-cyber-tool-westerners-have-been-texting-russians-about-the-war-in-ukraine-11647100803

People around the world are using a new website to circumvent the Kremlin’s propaganda machine by sending individual messages about the war in Ukraine to random people in Russia.

The website was developed by a group of Polish programmers who obtained some 20 million cellphone numbers and close to 140 million email addresses owned by Russian individuals and companies. The site randomly generates numbers and addresses from those databases and allows anyone anywhere in the world to message them, with the option of using a pre-drafted message in Russian that calls on people to bypass President Vladimir Putin’s censorship of the media.

Since it was launched on March 6, thousands of people across the globe, including many in the U.S., have used the site to send millions of messages in Russian, footage from the war, or images of Western media coverage documenting Russia’s assault on civilians, according to Squad303, as the group that wrote the tool calls itself.

And

“Our aim was to break through Putin’s digital wall of censorship and make sure that Russian people are not totally cut off from the world and the reality of what Russia is doing in Ukraine,” a spokesman for Poland-based Squad303 said.

The spokesman, a programmer who asked not to be identified, likened the effort to such Cold War-era projects as the U.S.-funded Radio Free Europe, which beamed radio programs in several languages across the Iron Curtain. Nearly seven million text messages and two million emails have been sent using the website since it was created a week ago, he said.

And

Mr. Crawford, 38 years old, said he had messaged 2,000 mobile-phone numbers in Russia. Most people never responded, others reacted with expletives, but 15 people engaged in conversation, he said.

To prove that he is an ordinary American, Mr. Crawford said, he sent a Russian engineer photos from his vacation in Hawaii. The man responded with pictures of his family holiday in Estonia on the Baltic Sea. Mr. Crawford then sent images of Ukraine coverage by mainstream U.S. broadcasters such as CNN.

His intention was, he said, to gain the trust of the Russian people he communicates with so they could come to him for uncensored information about what Mr. Putin was doing in Ukraine.

“The whole idea is to educate Russian people about what’s going on so they can rise up and stop their government from invading countries,” Mr. Crawford said.

“Having lived in the U.S. all my life, only now I am starting to understand the concept of not having freedom of speech. My heart goes out to the Ukrainians, but now I have some sympathy for the Russians, too, because they have been brainwashed.”

And

A law student from Moscow, age 25, who also engaged with a Western person to say that she didn’t support Mr. Putin’s war on Ukraine, told The Wall Street Journal that she had no interest in publicly speaking up against the war for fear of retribution.

“Am I supposed to risk my education, my future?” she said.

“I know Putin is killing people in Ukraine, but it is not my fault, I am not killing anyone, and I am not supporting any wars,” she said.

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