Ukraine Invasion Part 12

[MagicFox]

I see the other thread is filling up so starting the twelfth...

@AuldAlliance your point has just rather been proved :D

@Bluebellsunderthetrees On the faint chance there's anything between your ears than the sound of roubles, you're embarassing yourself rather thoroughly.

Just throwing it out there that actually there’s quite of bit of evidence that online misinformation does actually work in changing people’s minds. A dear friend voted Leave because of one pamphlet outlining terrifying plans for the EU to take over the UK.

Is Facebook Making Us Dumber? Exploring Social Media Use as a Predictor of Political Knowledge

But if you really don't believe votes, results are what people want, let's give up now and offer the UK up to Putin?

@Shuuu

Is Putin himself attending peace talks now? I have seen somewhere he was travelling to Israel

Please, someone shoot that plane down

Dr blackbird really 🫣.

That's shocking.
I know quite a few remainers were told that they would have to pay vast sums for expensive visas to visit Europe after Brexit but I never believed they only voted remain because of that.
I was confident they did a deep dive on all sorts of positions before making that vote surely??

Agreed ljsbear.

@MarshaBradyo

"
Did anyone talk about faster solutions)"

++++

The quickest way to lower oil prices is for the Saudis to increase production, which they have said they would provided the West supports them more in the war against Yemen and provide support against Iran.

Basically to stop high oil prices caused by a war the solution is to get involved in another ongoing war and then potentially provoke yet another bigger war!!

The other solution of course is an end to the war in Ukraine.

I expect that Putin won't be attending anything at all in person at the moment and is pretty much on lockdown I The Kremlin.

I assume it would be an absolutely massive security risk for him to go out and about. (Not that I'm particularly invested in him being secure)

@holliem91

"I also want to ask (I've been keeping away from the news as much as possible because of my anxiety), has there been any further mention about Russia using chemical/bio weapons? If so, would NATO intervene then? "

++++

Firstly would chemical weapons be used? There is a reasonable chance of this particularly if the Russians start taking heavy casualties when they go into cities plus they have already started to lay the ground with fake stories about Ukrainian bio weapons research.

Secondly if chemical weapons were used would NATO intervene? Whilst NATO itself desperately wouldn't want to, given the current public opinion and media position then NATO would face massive pressure from its member country voters to get involved. I mean there are already a lot of people on MN posts saying NATO should intervene now, let alone if the Russians use chemical weapons.

Thirdly if NATO did get involved then the Russians/ Putin have two choices: defeat or use tactical nuclear weapons.

Fourthly if tactical nuclear weapons are used then there is an extremely high probability that it would then escalate to an all out nuclear war.

That's why we are all in an incredibly dangerous situation right now and politicians, media, social media and the general population need cool heads.

I will not support being dragged into a war by these people Hopefully negotiation will take place but it won't if these people have the ear of the Ukrainian president.

In the narrative that you are trying to portray you are conveniently ignoring Wagner being redeployed from Africa and Chechen seperatists, thats ignoring the fact that Bellingcat have also highlighted the many far right groups in Russia.

It looks like you are in a bit of situation of being so anti west and full on IDPOL that you in fact support far right nazis yourself. By your standards you openly support the Wagner group, so you are openly a far right sympathiser..

[quote Ijsbear]@AuldAlliance your point has just rather been proved :D

@Bluebellsunderthetrees On the faint chance there's anything between your ears than the sound of roubles, you're embarassing yourself rather thoroughly.[/quote]
Give it a rest about my agenda and roubles
I have principles so I don't feel in the slightest bit embarrassed. A bad guy is a bad guy whatever side of the fence but I know @Ijsbear it can be one of the hardest and sometimes scariest things to stand up to say.
Something I doubt you will ever understand

@Justanotherlurker

I will not support being dragged into a war by these people Hopefully negotiation will take place but it won't if these people have the ear of the Ukrainian president.

In the narrative that you are trying to portray you are conveniently ignoring Wagner being redeployed from Africa and Chechen seperatists, thats ignoring the fact that Bellingcat have also highlighted the many far right groups in Russia.

It looks like you are in a bit of situation of being so anti west and full on IDPOL that you in fact support far right nazis yourself. By your standards you openly support the Wagner group, so you are openly a far right sympathiser..

What?

@Bluebellsunderthetrees
Yes, he’s very, very naughty!

Perhaps that particular poster's gone to the Putin school of Fact Presentation :D

BBC 10pm news is depressing tonight, it seems like the advance on Kyiv is really ramping up, even Lyse Doucet seemed concerned.

Grim stuff.

In amongst that FT article linked to earlier was a paragraph detailing how Putin and his cronies (Siloviki ) have ganrnered the sympathy of large amounts of ordinary Russians, partly because they are still very resentful about how the country was plundered during the 1990's and because they believe that the 'liberal cultural elites' of places like St Petersburg and Moscow' show contempt towards them.

And I read that paragraph and wondered why it was ringing bells in my memory ?

Back to more important stuff, does anyone know how reliable the Moscow Times is?

According to it, Navalny has been banned from the presidency and e-voting has been adopted countrywide, which critics say makes it easier to falsify results.

@Wrongkindofovercoat my friend grew up in the GDR and he too says that after reunification the West plundered the old GDR :s

What?

Oh, are we playing around with the 'What did I mean' situation, do you need a twitter account to counter my argument?

You have tried hard to push the Azov situation and have tried to call out someone for being a far right sympathiser, it's a simple situation of your narrative.

To put it bluntley you are supporting the Wagner group and the Chechens who have done far worse and publisiced it on social media than the Azov group could ever do.

There comes a point of being so anti west means you are not on the right side of history, and your comments on here reflect this.

@Justanotherlurker

What?

Oh, are we playing around with the 'What did I mean' situation, do you need a twitter account to counter my argument?

You have tried hard to push the Azov situation and have tried to call out someone for being a far right sympathiser, it's a simple situation of your narrative.

To put it bluntley you are supporting the Wagner group and the Chechens who have done far worse and publisiced it on social media than the Azov group could ever do.

There comes a point of being so anti west means you are not on the right side of history, and your comments on here reflect this.

That is some twisted logic.

papertyger

Another, highly intelligent friend, wanted information before deciding. She read up on both Remain and Leave’s arguments to make up her mind. However felt more confused than ever afterwards . So she looked at who was running the campaigns and voted Remain on that basis, not being a fan of Farage.

Re believing votes, well I’ll continue to do so for now even though I’m not wholly confident in this government not to do its best to do some electioneering. However, I don’t believe that we can afford to be complacent and take our democracy for granted. On the one hand, there are vested interests trying v hard to undermine the integrity of the system. On the other, there’s the hubris of SM.

@holliem91

This is what Biden said about chemical weapons:

While President Joe Biden has repeated that the U.S. will not send troops to Ukraine to fight Russia, he warned Friday that "Russia would pay a severe price" if it used chemical weapons in Ukraine, raising questions over what those consequences would look like.

So he hasn’t actually said what the consequences will be, it may be more like sanctions again. Or a severe form. He’s very clear there won’t be boots on the ground or military help though.

@Wrongkindofovercoat - something about "taking back control" seems familiar.

Probably a good idea not to engage further

Signs of a shill:

• Pushing agenda at all costs, even in the light of contrary evidence

• Denial of provable facts

• Twisting and distortion of any comparison or sense of perspective into their own agenda

• Refusal to genuinely engage with others

• When one point is no longer working, they move onto another again without any actual engagement. They'll move back when they think it will benefit their agenda again.

• claims to moral high ground while supporting extreme criminal acts by others.

The waving of the High Moral Tone flag, refusal to get involved in any sort of actual engagement and the twisting and distortion of facts are primary giveaways.

Best route of action is to either ignore or report.

@AgnesWestern

Thankyou