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Ukraine invasion discussion thread - part 10

996 replies

cakeorwine · 07/03/2022 19:53

That filled up quick

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4497950-Ukraine-invasion-discussion-thread-part-9

OP posts:
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17
DuncinToffee · 09/03/2022 12:54

Tom Newton Dunn
Defence Secretary Ben Wallace reveals the UK has now supplied Ukraine's forces with 3,615 NLAW anti-tank missiles so far, and will soon begin supplying them with Javelin missiles too.

DaisyTheUnicorn · 09/03/2022 12:56

I heard a bit if a radio 4 thing taking about fertiliser and explaining that this will lead to genuine food shortages...

Ijsbear · 09/03/2022 13:00

Wonder if Putin is right back in his comfort zone? It's a new Cold War with one flaming hot spot. It's what he was born and grew up with and worked within for his first decades.

DuncinToffee · 09/03/2022 13:01

Defence Secretary Ben Wallace tells MPs the UK's military assessment of Russian invasion of Ukraine is that Moscow has only achieved one of its main objectives.

Also says Russia's first day aim of targeting Ukrainian air defences has failed 'preventing total air dominance'.

Natsku · 09/03/2022 13:03

@DaisyTheUnicorn

I heard a bit if a radio 4 thing taking about fertiliser and explaining that this will lead to genuine food shortages...
It likely will, unless alternative sources can be found.
prettybird · 09/03/2022 13:06

@PerkingFaintly - hot water doesn't power lights Confused

Hot water for showers is primarily only required at weekends: people ('cos of Covid) have got into the habit of changing and showering at home after training.

So while the stored hot water is nice Hmm, it's not much use for reducing the costs of lighting (the major cost in autumn, winter and spring). The business case for the investment in solar panels was predicated on batteries as part of the overall project Sad

Ijsbear · 09/03/2022 13:07

Wonder how much food the fishing fleets can provide ...

also, now we know it's super serious. Yorkshire Tea sales are being suspended. www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-60675213

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2022 13:12

BBC 1pm News

Apparently Putin is considering banning the export of raw materials but no further details yet.

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2022 13:13

Pippa Crerar @PippaCrerar
Boris Johnson says that Michael Gove will set out details of new visa route in coming days which would permit Brits to "offer a home to Ukrainians fleeing".

Unclear whether this is sponsorship route that Govt has been promising - or a third route to the UK

'Coming days'

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2022 13:15

Reports that Russian is now getting supplies into Kherson by train.

If thats true their logistics chain will be much less stretched.

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2022 13:16

Adam Bienkov @AdamBienkov
Liz Truss will tomorrow give a speech saying the UK needs to reduce the UK's "strategic economic reliance on authoritarian regimes."

Asked whether this will include Saudi Arabia, Boris Johnson's spokesman says that they will "remain a partner" with the UK.

Words · 09/03/2022 13:20

I overheard snippets of a disturbing conversation at the gym today.

It was someone who was defending Putin's actions as justified when set against the long history of Western aggression, starting with Vietnam, and that it was quite right that Putin had had enough. Stuff it to the elites etc. Hmm

Suspect this is social media derived disinformation. I caught up with the woman he was speaking to who said she agreed with him, that she never believed anything she read, and she certainly didn't believe the BBC. Didn't trust anyone, she said.

This in a nutshell symbolises the damage and confusion that has been sown over the last few years. It's so dangerous and dark.

There is no way of arguing with it either, exactly as its originators intend of course.

notimagain · 09/03/2022 13:21

@RedToothBrush

Reports that Russian is now getting supplies into Kherson by train.

If thats true their logistics chain will be much less stretched.

I’m afraid there’s been a bit of temptation in some parts of the MSM/Social media to keep posting images of “that convoy” and assume that the sort of shambles we say north of Kiev has been happening across the whole campaign, and also that the Russian’s won’t learn from their mistakes….

One think tanks POV here:

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/08/russia-solving-logistics-problems-and-could-attack-kyiv-within-days-experts

workisnotawolf · 09/03/2022 13:23

@DownNative - how can a binding and much more robust bilateral security agreement not potentially conflict with the spirit of the NATO treaty?
Realistically, how can the UK enter into a binding agreement following the huge Brexit fuss.
Why does the UN get off scot free again, potentially?

coffeeandcakeage · 09/03/2022 13:24

About the reactors...

From @iaeaorg IAEA - International Atomic Energy Agency on Twitter:

#Ukraine has informed IAEA of power loss at #Chornobyl Nuclear Power Plant, @rafaelmgrossi says development violates key safety pillar on ensuring uninterrupted power supply; in this case IAEA sees no critical impact on safety.

twitter.com/iaeaorg/status/1501545852715905029

DGRossetti · 09/03/2022 13:26

@Words

I overheard snippets of a disturbing conversation at the gym today.

It was someone who was defending Putin's actions as justified when set against the long history of Western aggression, starting with Vietnam, and that it was quite right that Putin had had enough. Stuff it to the elites etc. Hmm

Suspect this is social media derived disinformation. I caught up with the woman he was speaking to who said she agreed with him, that she never believed anything she read, and she certainly didn't believe the BBC. Didn't trust anyone, she said.

This in a nutshell symbolises the damage and confusion that has been sown over the last few years. It's so dangerous and dark.

There is no way of arguing with it either, exactly as its originators intend of course.

To be honest who cares what people like that think as long as they remain in the 30% (or 73% in Erdington) who don't bother voting ?
Words · 09/03/2022 13:29

Well yes, DGR, I take your point.

EsmaCannonball · 09/03/2022 13:29

If I'd been forced into boycotting Yorkshire Tea I would be on my way to drop grenades into Vlad's bunker right now.

(If anyone from Taylor's of Harrogate is reading, yes, you can quote me in your advertising material.)

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2022 13:37

Now starting to see (unverified) reports of mass arrests in Kherson too.

It would be more surprising if it wasn't happening at this stage tbh, but I think there must be real concerns about what might happen to those people. (clue: its not fluffy liberation from Nazis)

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2022 13:38

Saul Staniforth @SaulStaniforth
Sky News Presenter: "The Labour party isn't calling for Visa waivers at the moment, is it?"

Yvette Cooper confirms Labour Party policy is to require Ukrainian refugees to apply for, and be granted, visas. (1/2)

So what's Yvette Cooper's plan to ease the burden on refugees who've fled a war zone, sometimes with only the clothes on their back, & are desperate to join friends or family in the UK.

Brussels visa centre is only open 3 days a week. It should extend its opening hours. (2/2)

TheABC · 09/03/2022 13:38

A question for the wise heads on this forum: how much does this matter?

Russia soon unable to pay it's debts warns Fitch.
||www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60672085||

Peregrina · 09/03/2022 13:39

It was someone who was defending Putin's actions as justified when set against the long history of Western aggression, starting with Vietnam, and that it was quite right that Putin had had enough. Stuff it to the elites etc.

At the same time, we have to try to understand where he is coming from. The West (primarily USA) does have a long history of what can be seen as aggression - with Vietnam turning out to be a spectacular failure. As was Afghanistan (which had also been a failure for the USSR and the British Empire before that.)

DGRossetti · 09/03/2022 13:47

@Peregrina

It was someone who was defending Putin's actions as justified when set against the long history of Western aggression, starting with Vietnam, and that it was quite right that Putin had had enough. Stuff it to the elites etc.

At the same time, we have to try to understand where he is coming from. The West (primarily USA) does have a long history of what can be seen as aggression - with Vietnam turning out to be a spectacular failure. As was Afghanistan (which had also been a failure for the USSR and the British Empire before that.)

It's entirely possible to understand things, without agreeing to them.

In fact I will go as far as to say if you don't understand something, then you can't really agree or disagree with it. Just click an emoji and tell yourself you're an expert.

RedToothBrush · 09/03/2022 13:50

news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-with-online-images-of-destroyed-tanks-and-equipment-on-both-sides-who-is-winning-12561125
Ukraine war: With online images of destroyed tanks and equipment on both sides, who is winning?

As Russia and Ukraine continue to put out their own narrative of events on the ground, open-source data can help reveal what’s really going on.

This is utterly fascinating - the graphs are really important. To try and show here they highlight the following

Vehicle losses documented online

Tanks
Russia 146 - 1.1%
Ukraine 46 - 2.2%

Trucks vehicles and jeeps
291 - 0.7%
70 - 2.9%

Infantry fighting vehicles
133 - 2%
33 - 2.5%

From what has been verified online, more Russian equipment has been destroyed than Ukrainian.
But even though this is likely to underestimate Ukrainian losses, they have still lost a larger percentage of their vehicles, as they had fewer in the first place.

It also states:
the chart below shows that a majority of Russian vehicles aren't being destroyed but are being abandoned or captured. But it also shows these percentages are very high for Ukrainian vehicles.

Mr Bullock thinks there are different reasons behind the two sets of similar numbers.

"A significant proportion of Russian equipment is likely being abandoned due to low morale and supply issues around fuel," he said.

"With the Ukrainian equipment it's more likely many of these are cases where bases have been overrun and troops have had to make a swift retreat, leaving equipment and vehicles abandoned."

This - plus the news that Russia might be starting to get supplies in by train and mass arrests in occupied areas - show things definitely aren't as good as many of us would like to believe.

This was to be expected, but to see it start to filter through, is nonetheless disspiriting too.

The challenge for Zelensky to keep up moral in a protracted conflict shouldn't be under estimated. He isn't going to have the same effect a few months down the line...

workisnotawolf · 09/03/2022 13:51

oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Putin-Signs-Decree-To-Ban-Exports-Of-Raw-Materials-Commodities.html

Russian President Vladimir Putin has signed a decree that institutes special economic measures that will be in effect until the end of this year.

Part of those special economic measures will include a ban or restriction on exports outside Russia—the list of products, commodities, and raw materials to be determined later by the Russian government.

The purpose of the decree is to “ensure the security of the Russian Federation”.

The United States on Tuesday already banned imports of Russian crude oil, gas, and energy. Outside the United States, other Russian crude oil buyers are self-sanctioning, further limiting Russia’s ability to export its energy products.

When the United States announced the Russian energy ban, President Joe Biden said it did with the full support of Europe, acknowledging that Europe is not as well-positioned to withstand such a ban.

Should Russia decide to add crude oil or natural gas to its list of banned or restricted products, however, it could send Europe into a new level of energy crisis.

The decree goes into effect on the day of its official publication. The government has been given two days to complete a list of which foreign states will be subject to the new restrictions and which items should be restricted or banned.

Russian Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Novak already threatened to halt natural gas exports to Germany via the Nord Stream 1 pipeline earlier this week.

Russia is the world’s third-largest crude oil producer and is a major exporter of aluminum, nickel, and palladium.

Oil prices started to rise after news of President Putin’s decree, despite the vague nature of it.

Brent crude was trading at $128.40 at 4:30 p.m. ET.

By Julianne Geiger for Oilprice.com 8 March

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